As it turns out it doesn’t actually cost that much on regular transit, there’s an AIRPORT SURCHARGE because it’s an “airport train”.
No wonder Americans don’t use public transit, even when the system exists it’s ridiculously difficult and expensive to use.
Here in Kansas City our transit was free for the past four years.
The downer is that, since we subsidized the public transit here in the city, the various suburbs opted to stop funding the routes that went into their various towns and cities, so now fares are going to be re-introduced.
At least the streetcar is going to remain free here, for now, and likely through 2026 due to the World Cup.
Olathe and OP are two big reasons we can’t have anything nice here. The streetcar is staying on the Missouri side only (at least for now) so I’m hopeful it’ll stay free.
You’re not wrong. Those two cities love their cars and their shitty chain stores.
When you have free public transport it ceases to be strictly public transport, and becomes half homeless shelter. No one wants to ride around with people who are all too often drug riddled, mentally ill, and just all around awful to be in an enclosed space with. I have sympathy for and want to help that demographic, but turning public transport into extremely expensive homeless day rooms ain’t it.
Edit: down vote me all you like, free fares is an awful idea. If we want functional and useful public transport in this country we have to have it be safe and clean. I say this as someone who hasn’t owned a personal auto in 12 plus years. I love and use public transport every day. Drug addled assholes are a problem.
Oh, I know.
That’s partly why I carry a stun-gun everywhere now.
This conversation was just had in another thread but you’re far better off with pepper spray. Get a friend to zap you with the stun gun, then ask yourself a question. If I was intent on being violent, would this stop me or just piss me off? For me the answer is the latter, and I’ve been stun gunned, even cattle prodded, messing around being stupid when I was younger.
Any critique of homeless people gets insta-downvoted unfortunately. The KC transit system, which I like, is rife with homeless people and many of them are visibly maladjusted and the people downvoting you would be instantly afraid of them. I’ve had one try to physically intimidate me, so now I carry a pocket stun-gun everywhere.
In fact, our streetcar is getting armed security guards because of said maladjusted homeless people.
FYI, airport surcharges are very common. Across the bay at Oakland has an airport surcharge. Sydney has them too, which I was happy about because Melbourne doesn’t have a train (AU $25 for a bus ticket, which was sold out) nor did Hobart. I recall AREX in Incheon also having a significant fare jump for the airport stops.
For argument purposes, BART is $0.18/mile (19th Oakland <> Berryessa). That’s still pretty high for regional public transit, which is mostly due to BART’s high farebox recovery. That high recovery is now a problem with the whole pandemic and subsequent slow return of ridership.
The Narita Express also costs significantly more than the regular train into Tokyo. Airport trains have to account for travelers with a lot of luggage and thus can carry fewer people than regular trains.
London has a expensive express line from Heathrow to the city and a regular underground line that costs a fraction.
I once went through a BART gate line by mistake, I was trying to get to the trolley service and misread the signage. I immediately exited. The charge: $6.20. Still can’t believe it.
Use cash.
I walked off the train into a depowered station at night and couldnt scan off at the station, so I got on a bus and it depleted my card, then the next day I got a ticket for riding the bus without paying because the computer stole all my money and the guy giving me a ticket couldnt care less that I actually payed more than I should have but just kept repeating that I “should have had more money on the card”
I did this once in Tokyo, besides a stern looking at I didn’t have to pay anything.
It’s still probably significantly cheaper than Uber/Lyft.
Yeah, payed $30 to get from the airport to downtown sf a couple days ago, so probably closer to $50 to get all the way to oakland.
Meanwhile here in Germany I can use any bus, tram, U-Bahn, or train (excluding high speed) anywhere in the country for 58€/month
The DeutschlandTicket is the best thing! I love it. I want that with their Steuernummer, baby’s get a DeutschlandTicket. Everybody needs a DeutschlandTicket.
I’ve been wondering why this hasn’t become a thing yet. Probably lobbying from all the Verkehrsverbünde.
No, they really want to keep it as cheap as possible. It’s the Bundesregierung that rather subsidises Diesel privileges and Pendlerpauschalen.
But if you don’t have the D-ticket, good luck figuring out how the local ticketing machine works haha
Easy, just buy the ticket in DB Navigator
I want that in the Netherlands as well. Much smaller country, so less value for your money. But now you pay even more (€66) for a return ticket from the east border to the west border (Winterswijk - Scheveningen).
In SF its a hundred dollars a month, but you can only go to 4 stations in the city, so you end up paying regular fare on top of that all the time, and usless for commuters.
The busses frequently dont exist even though google and the signs say they should be arriving, so youre frequently an hour or more late because you had to get an uber because the bus never came.
If youre going to a connecting train or flight you need to leave hours early to account for delays.
NYC is much more reasonable
It cost me about £60 for one return rail ticket last week 😭 that’s not including the tube fare to get to the station.
Yep, train tickets are ridiculous here. It kills me on the inside whenever I have to go to London.
for bart, it charges by the distance, for muni, they recently up thier fees for tickets, they are also have a budget mismangment issue which causes thier budget problems. they waste twice as much as they bring in through fare evasion fees, and transit fees, last i heard they are cutting some services in the summer. and there has some justification for fare evasion(just dont discuss this on reddit, because its mostly been infiltrated by do-gooders conservatives)
caltrain is a seperate agency than, bart, muni.
Why do you say it’s mismanagement?
My understanding is that ridership still hasn’t returned to pre-pandemic levels and the state and federal funding that was keeping it afloat has dried up.
Pretty sure must of us aren’t going anywhere near Reddit. Muni seems a mess from my perspective, but when I visit there from sac the $8 or whatever it is for all day transit seems reasonable to me. Might have the price wrong, last time I was there was Chinese New Year and I rode the cable cars all day which was totally worth the $8. But I might as well be a tourist so I don’t know just how fucked it all is.
A bus ticket for me to get to work is $3.50 and it’s about 1h40m. It takes roughly 35-45 minutes to drive. Idk if that’s good or not but I consider myself lucky that I don’t need to transfer buses
This is the norm where I live too, AND my city has a relatively good public transportation system.
The alternative is higher taxes and everyone scoffs at that so…
I had to go through SF a few times this year. I have no idea how much the transit cost, but it was fucking expensive and I just rode a few times per day across town or to the airport.
I love public transit systems and being free to move around a city using them. It’s a truly liberating experience to have real freedom, but damn SF was tough to understand and weird in places. They’ve got to unify the system and start paying for it or it’s going to just keep crushing their downtown areas when no one uses the transit to visit.
Unifying the system might actually hurt it more then help. MUNI the bus and light rail system within the city is relatively cheap, $2.75 fare to ride any where. That’s because it’s funded mostly by the city because people in the city use and value it more. BART, the metro that’s posted in the picture is funded by all the suburban and urban municipalities that it serves in the metro area, and since the suburban cities don’t use/ value it as much it’s hard to get funding for it passed through taxes so they rely more on fares.
If they unified it then the minority of people in the city wouldn’t be able to pass taxes to improve, or at this point maintain, service and we’d get stuck with high fares and low service.
For example in the last election a majority of people voted to tax rideshares to pay for the bus in the city, it didn’t pass because another ballot measure that passed had some fine print nullified it, but that kind of measure would never have passed throughout the whole bay area.
Toronto’s UP express checking in. $12.35 from down town to the airport. Sub way in the city is cheap and affordable but that dam airport thing is in its own world.
https://www.upexpress.com/en/about-up/things-are-looking-up
Next topic is toll roads. 407. Full there and back trip during main business hours. 274km = $173.50
Same in Edinburgh. The buses and trams have a capped fee per day but it doesn’t count if you’re coming from the airport for some reason…
It used to be more. Then someone pointed out it was more expensive than a cab from downtown to the airport.
One of the reasons I don’t want to live anywhere else in the US is NYC had public transit that mostly works. Even if this weekend I had to do a Q to the N to the 7 to back to the N to get to queens. I played a whole game of Lords of Waterdeep on my phone and read some of my book.
I couldn’t handle living in NYC long term, but I did stay, mostly in Brooklyn, for four months. The subway is amazing. I will never drive in that city again if I can avoid it.
i wondered, who is this person who is so out of touch that she thinks that is a reasonable price, and… she is a former member of congress from orange county who is currently campaigning to be governor of california 🤡
I mostly agree with you but this is in one of the most expensive places in the country. Public transport should be free of course but everything must profit in the USA.
Why do Americans think everything has to profit?
Because that’s the foundation and definition of capitalism. The market will provide (as long as there’s profit to be made).
Not saying it’s right though.
That’s not the definition or foundation of capitalism, it’s the definition of a market economy.
The foundation of capitalism is a system where investors can pool small amounts of money together on big projects, to share risk and reward. Historically to fund trading ships on their way to the indies.
So it destructures ownership, which has a million ripple effects on the organization and economy.
You’re describing corporatism.
Not at all, corporatism is a system where interest groups have a high amount of power : guilds, syndicates, unions, etc…
Capitalism literally refers to pooling capital together from multiple sources to allow shared risk taking and allow for the creation of companies that can get bigger by having more than one owner.
This eventually leads the way for pension funds and multinational corporations whose sole purpose is to extract maximum value for pensioners and billionaires.
Capitalism is an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production and their use for the purpose of obtaining profit. This socioeconomic system has developed historically through several stages and is defined by a number of basic constituent elements: private property, profit motive, capital accumulation, competitive markets, commodification, wage labor, and an emphasis on innovation and economic growth.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
In the context of “Why do Americans think everything has to profit?”, then the point is that the train is considered only for the profit it can make, and not for the environmental etc benefits. This is a result of the market economy as you rightly state (and private ownership of transportation).
Not only must everything profit, it must profit MORE than it did previously. If you make $10 million selling widgets last year, and make $10 million again this year, well that’s a failing business and you should be fired.
If you predict that your business will be up 5% this quarter, and it’s only up 3%, that’s considered a disaster, and the stock price will drop, and that CEO is still in trouble. Repeat every quarter.
JFK rail transfer to Jamaica Queens is like… Shit like 8.50? Then you can get on the ‘regular’ subway. It’s way cheaper (and can take about the same time from Manhattan) than using a taxi or an Uber.
So your airport transportation is 8.50 on top of your metro card (34 a week which easily is covered if you are about the city at all).
WAY cheaper using the subway in NYC than owning a vehicle. A month for the metro is 132 for comparison.
I hear she’s running for governor of California! That would be amazing. Fuck Newsom.
I’m not a huge fan of Porter. But between her and Kamala fucking Harris, whose big takeaway from the 2024 election seems to be “we didn’t run far enough to the right…”
I’ll admit I don’t know much about her outside of those videos of her grilling CEOs when she was part of the Progressive Caucus. If she’s as pro average citizen as she seems, she’s better than most. What don’t you like about her?
She traveled by airplane to San Francisco – while campaigning against building a HSR system for the state. She also said she lost the CA Senate race because the election was “rigged”. She is not a progressive – just a stupid populist.
Good grief no…Porter is extremely car-brained. Her first run for office was based entirely on opposing the gas tax. She then went on to support some dumb freeway projects:
That’s some light criticism considering the alternative is flirting with fascists. Newsom had Steve Bannon on the first episode of his podcast.
Newsom isn’t running for Governor (he is termed out).
Ohhhh. I didn’t know he couldn’t run again. That certainly explains his recent turn. I really like Katie Porter overall though, and wish her luck. I love watching those clips of her grilling CEOs. She seems like a no nonsense type of person. A little car brained is something we can work with.
Newsom is term limited, he ain’t coming back. That’s also the reason he’s turning right IMO, gearing up for a presidential run and thinks hariss’ biggest mistake wasn’t going on right wing podcasts.
Ohhhh I didn’t know that. It certainly explains why he’s taking this turn.
You see, we will become the opposition party by moving to the right of the republicans (fox will still call us communists)
