This hurt me to watch and it hurts me to see people supporting Trump’s actions.
Suppose for whatever reason that you do disagree with providing more aid. Was humiliating the leader of another nation in this manner justified at all? Were these the actions that any reasonable, dignified leader would make? You could have just refused to meet with him and told him no. Instead they dehumanized him, made him grovel and beg for support from their king full well knowing he was just going to say no anyways.
I keep trying to look for some good in the people of this nation, to see that there’s still some humanity left, but I don’t think there is at this point.
I’m so sorry, I’m so embarrassed and not for my country, I don’t even live there. I’m sorry for humanity
I’m just one US citizen but I’d like to apologize to all Ukrainians on behalf of 50% or so of all people here. Our leadership is disgusting.
EU citizen and i’d like to say your apologies are empty and hollow to us. Do something. This isn’t a joke, this isn’t hyperbole or a leftist talking point, you’re under constitutional crisis. Do something.
EU citizen and i’d like to say your apologies are empty and hollow to us. Do something. This isn’t a joke, this isn’t hyperbole or a leftist talking point, you’re under constitutional crisis. Do something.
Sorry to tell you this but at the moment Europe’s nuclear arsenal is the only thing standing between humanity and disaster.
This seems like a good place to post this:
Our current situation really is the culmination of almost 70 years of rightwing efforts. It’s a long listen but worth checking out How Conservatism Won by Robert Evans. He lays out in a clear concise way “how a consortium of rich failsons got together to fund a network of right wing think tanks and shift American culture in a fun new direction. (note: it was not actually fun at all).” They’ve been very successful and those think tanks are now pipelines used to funnel ideological purists into powerful positions like our current Supreme Court.
It’s worth remembering that one of the primary ghouls/traitors responsible for the attempted overthrow of our government on J6 was Roger Stone, the same traitorous ratfucker who began his career working for Nixon and has a fucking Nixon tattoo on his back. It’s really impossible to overstate just how fuckin’ bad these people are and they’re winning.
I tell people as often as I can, especially my trans and bipoc friends; now is the time. Get a couple guns (a long one and a short one) and learn how to use them. Learn some basic first aid, you really just need to know how to stabilize someone. Start networking with like-minded people in your communities. The police will not protect us, they’ve proven they’ll happily club senior citizens to the ground and shoot any protesters in the face with rubber bullets while escorting a rightwing murderer to safety.
The coup was successful, they’re in power and if they don’t want to give it up they won’t.
Get to know people in your community. Take an interest in growing food, learn how to fix things. Establish secondary lines of communication and start preparing.
https://mutualaiddisasterrelief.org/
https://afsc.org/news/how-create-mutual-aid-network
They weren’t talking to you champ. You wanna strap up and shoot your shot? I’ll buy your plane ticket.
Don’t worry we’ll all be forced conscripts soon to fight against the USA/Russia Axis Powers.
Good luck, seriously.
Those of us that can help, will; we’re mostly worried about trying to organize our local communities at this point but you’ll find plenty of friendly faces I’m sure.
“Do it for me, I’m a pussy”
What exactly are you proposing that you think has any chance of success?
Organize and consolidate.
While open carrying guns.
Fair enough, we’re working on it.
The actual left in the U.S. was gutted before most of us were born but we’re definitely trying. Not anyone in any position of power, they’re all just sitting on their hands; but lots of marginalized people are starting to talk and establish communications. Things are probably going to get bad over the next 5-10 years, preparing and planning is all we can do right now.
I couldn’t watch it all. I felt embarrassed. What the fuck does Russian interference in a U.S. election have to do with Russia trying to take over Ukraine?
Clearly Trump believes he has some friendship with Putin that would influence this whole conflict.
Trump was so backed into a corner he reflexively rambled about Hunter Biden’s laptop and Hillary Clinton. What a joke. Then doubling down on Vance’s inane rambling about not showing gratitude, channelling peak abusive parent energy.
All because Zelensky made very reasonable points about requiring guarantees.
Absolute amateurs.
This 100%
Or even that?
Too bad there is no republican in congress sophisticated enough to realize they tied their cart to a psychotic, inane, horse that is going to drive them over a cliff.
Yep. Trump is barely more intelligible than Alex Jones at this point. They’re both just as honest
and thiel has the puppy in the corner vance on a leash telling him to bark when trump does.
Zekenskyy did the best he could; he came in humility and he really didn’t have any cards at that table. He had no cards because he didn’t come to play, he came to capitulate to the whims of a tyrant to try and save the lives of his countrymen by signing a one-sided deal.
That video will go down in history as one of the greatest moments of infamy in this age - if there were any justice Trump and the puppet masters behind him should be tried for the spark that lit the third world war.
I read what happened, and after I knew I watched the video clip.
I’m still under shock.
The world is turning, this is an important point in history. I was in disbelief for a long time, but we Europeans can’t trust the US anymore.
This might be a good thing after all, we need to wean off the American teat and decouple ourselves. We need our own tech stacks, we need our own EU troops and we need our own whatever Nato once was.
We need to jump in and cough up the money to replace the Ukraine Support the US did.
I’m fucking afraid, the risk of
an even bigger war just greatly increased.But whatever will happen we’ll never be able to trust the USA again, even if things get better there’s no guarantee the same shit happens again 4 years later.
The only rational thing is to isolate ourselves from the sick patient.
he came in
humilityhumblyor
he came
inwith humility
No you orange turd. He just doesn’t respect you or your sycophants.
Trump: you have not shown gratitude for our help.
Zelenaky: I have thanked the US many times for the support given.
Trump: you haven’t shown ENOUGH gratitude. Just say thank you.
Zelenaky: I do thank the US
Trump: You didn’t say it while kissing the ring.
such a putin script hes using.
Few takeaways:
- JD Vance is talking over a tired-looking trump who can’t follow the conversation (See, him trying to correct Zelenskyy on the date of Crimea’s annexation, claiming it was 2015, then responding to being corrected on the date that, “I wasn’t there”. Like he was there in 2015, LOL).
- This was a preplanned ambush that is the most cringe fucking thing I’ve seen in the last 5 years, from MTG’s fucking boyfriend (I wish I made this up, I really do), attacking Zelenskyy for not wearing a suite, to which he responds by saying “I’ll wear a costume after the war is over. Like yours, but maybe better”
- JD Vance is really really bad at acting. He theatrically exclaims how the Oval office is being dIsReSPecTed!!!111!!! but with like a 5 second delay and with limited enthusiasm. All it does it tells you that this was the plan all along.
- Marco Rubio had a Dr Birx/drink bleach kind of moment there.
Overall the only news here is trump is really really declining cognitively. I wonder how long it will take NYT to notice that…
. He theatrically exclaims how the Oval office is being dIsReSPecTed!!!111!
And Trump using the Oval Office to sell another of his silly red hats for personal profit earlier in the week wasn’t disrespecting it?
Remember when he endorsed Goya beans in the Oval Office? Good times.
“I’ll wear a costume after the war is over.”
What a savage takedown, holy shit.
Zelenskyy is a class act. America doesn’t deserve to even be sitting at the same table as this guy.
All they achieved with this ambush is to show the difference in quality between Zelenskyy and trump/vance. The contrast is stark. Those two guys would have shat themselves in a reverse situation.
Fun fact: the French word for “suit” is “costume.” I wonder if Zelenskyy was aware of his multilingual pun.
Suit in Ukrainian is listerally “костюм”, in Latin script “kostyum”. Which is pronounced close enough.
I am not sure if it was intended, but hilarious nevertheless.
I’m sure it’s intended. The man was a comedian, and he’s been criticised for not wearing a suit before. He’s had this line in the chamber for a while, now he’s showing the world how a professional deals with hecklers.
criticized for not wearing a suit
Sometimes I don’t understand people. I’d love to see more politicians in normal clothes. It’s kind of childish to expect a suit for no reason, isn’t it?
Honestly, I’ve been around long enough that I associate suits with dishonesty. Car sales, real estate agents, lawyers, finance, politicians,… is there a pattern here, or no?
I started my professional career suited up, but transitioned away as I realised all our technical people who knew their shit, rolled up their sleeves and got it done didn’t wear them. The suits were managers making unrealistic schedules, and sales teams promising the world just to secure the next bonus.
Someone like Trump has never experienced real work. So let the con man wear his costume. It suits him.
I don’t think it was an intentional pun.
We can assume he is aware of it a lot more than the rubes in that room with him.
It’s the same in Ukrainian (and Russian): костюм
Honestly, the question’s stupidity wrote the pun.
Just to clarify, in Russian and Ukrainian “costume” means “suit”.
I did not know that! Well, today I learned something cool. Well, even if it wasn’t meant as a jab, it still projects a lot of strength on his part - he has once again proven that he’s dedicated to ending the war, not staying in power or cultivating wealth, or playing at political theater. Gotta respect that.
I understand. It totally did!
I lost my mind over that sick outfit burn. Goddamn.
I wonder how long it will take NYT to notice that…
Once it’s in their oligarch-owner’s interest
I’m sure the NYT has noticed, but their attorneys probably advise against making medical claims about sitting presidents. Especially since the current one is particularly litigious.
Ohh, I thought Biden was sitting president last year when they were pounding it on and on and on…
That was one of the most disgusting and rage-inducing videos I’ve ever seen. I would not have been able to restrain myself from punching Trump in the fucking nose if he had talked to me like that. I’m not a tough guy or violent in any way, and the Secret Service would have killed me, but the way he yells such insulting things at a world leader who is trying to save millions of lives… holy crap. And then Vance jumps in and claims he never said Thank You. I would’ve kicked him in the nuts and said, “thank you, now I feel better.”
This was a setup from the get go. They had no intention of signing any deal. This was all to get him in front of cameras with them so they could piss on his face and act like tough guys.
Trump won’t be mean to Putin because he wants to “make a deal” but he seems to be fine insulting the fuck out of Zelensky.
I particularly love the part where he says Obama sent them sheets and Trump sent them Javelins* then pauses to look at the camera and tell the media that that’s their headline. He may be losing his marbles, but that attention whore instinct goes straight to the core
* *Not sure if that’s the military aid he tried to block in order to coerce them into investigating the son of a political rival, or if he’s just taking credit for the aid sent under Biden that he actively opposed. Either way, it’s fucking rich for him to take credit for military aid when he is personally responsible for delaying and reducing the aid Ukraine got.
Congratulations, we’ve witnessed history as global American influence effectively ended. Mark this day.
Oh sure, there’ll be some leaders who’ll profess listening but no one is going to take America seriously from now on.
The wise sage is now a decrepit dotard.
Congratulations, we’ve witnessed history as global American influence effectively ended. Mark this day.
I wasn’t shocked today. I was shocked on election day that this day was going to come.
People used to laugh at me when I said America, as a leader and superpower, died when Trump won the first time. We have just been going forward due to inertia, but the bill will come due soon I fear
Well, the US has gone from powerful dotard to decrepit dotard anyway.
The US should feel embarassed for this.
Those of us who didn’t vote for him, actual Americans, do.
No true scotsman.
Yup. MAGAs are just as American as any other American. If they really want to deal with this, just whinging like elected Democrats isn’t gonna help. They’ve got to actually organize in meatspace.
If they were American, they would be following American values and laws.
also, if we ever got so lucky to get rid of this this mess, it won’t the MAGAs who will do the cleanup.
Some of us voted all blue and still respect the Constitution and its oath (except the 13th), and yes we do feel pretty damn embarrassed and not looking forward to the next few years trying to fend off the fascists
There’s a whole hell of a lot of them taking the Trump viewpoint.
One can only feel so embarrassed.
President Zelensky visited the USA to sign the rare earth mineral mining deal. The US mining executives were salivating over a deal to extract minerals from Ukraine like they do from Africa. Poof, Just Dumb and Orange Nero followed their Kremlin script, added a US temper tantrum and blew the fuck out of the deal. Ukraine will sell mining rights to the EU members, with exception to shitbags from Hungary, Slovakia and perhaps Italy. The executives who supported the deal must be pissed off.
I’m not convinced Trump ever really wanted those minerals. He floated the idea knowing Zelensky would never say ‘yes’ to the deal as originally presented. But then, when Zelensky seemed prepared to make compromises, Trump had to find another excuse to get the US out of being involved and went with the pathetic, shameful, cowardly performance we just witnessed.
Those minerals would be extremely lucrative for electric car batteries and space exploitation. Yes, I spelled it correctly.
Trump and Vance are bullies. The kind of damage this will do to the PR of the USA is incalculable.
Will there be anymore goodwill for the USA?
We no longer deserve good will, not as a whole.
United we Stand, Divided We Fall.
We’re falling right now. We’re divided, and many of us can’t even speak to our own families any longer. The power of cruelty and stupidity in great numbers can cause untold chaos and destruction.
The United States has, at least for this moment, fallen. Nobody should rely on us as a whole. An internal conflict may be coming at this rate here, and it has the potential to tear us all apart. I hope it doesn’t come to this, but it is what I fear. Things are descending so quickly…
Goodwill? Yes.
But as long as the US political system is as it is and as long it will only flip-flop between democrats and Maga every few years, there can not be any trust anymore.
The US proved to be an unreliable partner.
How can any other country go into any. negotiations with the US without knowing the US can changed what they do at any time?
There is no basis for a deal, anymore.
I mean, if the position of the country can change to such an insane degree by the results of a single election cycle then a lot of that goodwill that was given prior, should be examined.
That’s the sad fact of the matter. Trump and Vance and Elon and the rest of the administration are a fucking catastrophe, yes. But what is even worse than that, what is even more damaging for the long term viability of diplomacy, of international relations and governance, is that even when these clowns are gone, it can happen again.
Every time another country signs a trade deal, an alliance, a pact, an agreement of any sort with the US, even if the current leadership is absolutely incredible, that can change dramatically on a dime within 4 years. That has always been true, of course, but historically the precedent has been that new administrations are largely consistent in upholding international agreements. But a new precedent has been set, that agreements (aka “sheets” as the dumbass calls them) are worthless, that they can be torn up on a whim, that peace may require you to fluff the ego of a megalomaniac and kiss his feet, that you might have to placate idiocy and bravado and STILL have your economy rocked by asinine trade policies, that the threat of invasion and war could be a negotiation tactic for trade deals…
Countries are going to completely detach themselves from the US in all matters, and they absolutely should. We are going be turned into a North Korea-like state. Cut off from world trade and information, no diplomacy, just a looming threat to the whole world. Fuck me, this shit is bleak.
It won’t go so far as being like North Korea. But there are countries out there that don’t get good trade deals because of this exact problem. We will have to pay more for every trade deal we make for the next 30 years because other countries can’t be sure we’ll keep our end of it. It’s just like getting a loan with a bad credit rating. You can still get the loan but the bank is going to demand more compensation because of the risk.
I think that so many things are going to get fucked up between now and then that we would need a constitutional convention just reweave the threads of our society.
Congress can’t legislate its way out of this mess anymore.
They could. They absolutely could. They could pass laws regulating the Supreme Court and pass laws specifically reserving powers to itself, including more congressional agencies. Like a congressional department of justice, a congressional law enforcement arm, and a law removing the president from control of military appointments and nominations. (Effectively giving him a force made by Congress, that he can command but cannot easily subvert)
But isn’t part of why we are here is because our Constitution is vague to some people, it’s clauses without claws… What happens when the supreme court interprets the laws to be unconstitutional, whats to stop us from just doing this all again… People are not properly represented the electoral college, among many other things need to be fixed.
If SCOTUS goes completely rogue and just declares Congress to be unconstitutional then all bets are off. And yeah that’s scary. But within the rules there are still things that could be done.
T-minus and counting…
It can happen again? This is “it” happening again. We suffered you guys having a first trump administration, we thought you learned, but you elected him even harder the second time.
A very fair point.
this is what putin wanted all along, isolate the us, so they dont intefere with RUSSIAS internal matters, such as with crimea, ukraine, russian satellite states.
Every time another country signs a trade deal, an alliance, a pact, an agreement of any sort with the US, even if the current leadership is absolutely incredible, that can change dramatically on a dime within 4 years.
The “Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde” effect.
You’re being too pessimistic. Alliances have always been about being strange bedfellows that’ll stab each other in the back should the proper conditions ever be met.
No matter how kissy-kissy politicians may be in front of a camera, backroom dealing is still the norm. Only the orange guy mistook the backroom with a toilet and so it stinks of shit for everyone to see.
Whatever the end result of this, whoever’s left afterwards will get back to tender intimacies without a hitch.
Is this take supposed to be less pessimistic?
Yup. Politics are ugly. Always have been, hopefully won’t always be as well. We generally don’t see the ugliness, but right now it’s fully exposed. The recoil from seeing it happen might be hard to swallow, but that doesn’t make it any worse than it usually is when hidden. But we can also see the strength of having to go through that and still walk away.
Now I’m hoping the next period of time won’t prove me wrong and this moment will be an important impetus for change towards the better.
If I am proven wrong though, I’ll join your pessimism.
This isn’t just bad politics. We’ve publicly threatened invasion and annexation of our closest allies.
Trump irreparably compromised our national security by doing this. We rely heavily on our alliances and soft power for counterterrorism, military and counterintelligence operations. Before Trump, we were leading the most powerful network of defense alliances in the world. In one month Trump pissed that away, and made us a much weaker country.
What we’re seeing here is full on treason.
You’re seeing the US through a colored lens. It started losing its stride a couple of presidencies before Trump. Had the opportunity to make a comeback in several ways, yet shat on each and every one.
Trump’s just the biggest visible zit on the US. Every other zit pushing him into prominence were something no one tried to clean before they got infected with pus. It’s all ugly and something that’s been brewing for a long time.
This ain’t no one man show. The “treason” is just an inner conflict that was left untreated for a long, long time. The US needs to start healing itself, pronto.
What an absurd viewpoint
How much longer before the US loses the hegemony of the dollar as a reserve currency do you think?
Trump is definitely accelerating the process.
I estimate around 2029-2030 we’ll be using Rinminbi as the global reserve currency.
Would be a good thing
One can only hope sooner, rather than later.
Turns out who we pick to lead the country matters a lot
I’ll be honest with you guys… my wife and I (Australian) had a three-week holiday to America planned for June which I just cancelled last week because I don’t want to give you a single fucking dollar.
We’re going to Japan now instead.
I’m American - you don’t want to be here right now. Nobody sane wants to be here right now.
Can’t say I blame you.
I don’t blame you, I just hope you all remember that this is being done to us by state actors, chiefly the Russians. We’ve given them the tools to do it with - our freedom of speech and the Internet, but I just hope you understand they are leveraging the stupidest among us to do all of this.
Russians are gonna Russian, but this was done to you by 77 million of your own citizens that voted for the known criminal and traitor, and the millions who didn’t bother to vote at all. And many of them are cheering even today.
Russians have been trying this all over Europe and they can’t get past 30% in France or 20% in Germany.
The tools are the Republicans slashing education for decades so people stay dumb. Mission accomplished, apparently.
same here
I have zero faith that Trump and Vance will do anything that favors ongoing world peace and/or limiting Russian Aggression, instead I believe Trump and Vance will serve their own interest by selling out Ukraine and baking up a scheme that will gain favor of their Russian buddies, who control an amazing amount of wealth for a country with such a high poverty rate.
How long till we send troops into Ukraine? I don’t mean as allies. Reagan is spinning in his grave. (Don’t get me wrong, a grave is where he belongs, but he’d be pretty burned about this)
Trump said one thing thats true, “You’re in a bad position right now, and you don’t have the cards…”, Ukraine doesn’t have the economy to put up a lasting ongoing fight with Russia, especially if they’re getting troop support from North Korea
 I think we should pour every surplus American weapon we have and donated to Ukraine immediately and then we need the pressure people who purchase oil and natural gas for my ran and Russia and forced them into some sort of economic sanction  Then we need to take all the F 35s that we paid billions and billion dollars and development money for and deploy them to the eastern European sector and put up a no fly zone
But, I am just an internet shit poster who got banned from Reddit.
Welcome to Lemmy. There’s dozens of us!
Isn’t this totally ignoring the geopolitical position of Ukraine though? They’re a bulwark against (physical) Russian aggression toward the EU. Abandoning that puts a strain on US relations with the rest of the world, by design. What happens after this? Russia isn’t going to suddenly stop trying to colonize areas next to them.
Instead of being a great “business deal” for the US, it’s pushing the rest of the world away, forcing the US to use bully tactics and physical threats rather than actual diplomacy because Trump can only see it as zero-sum, or more likely is intentionally sabotaging our relationships.
I suppose actually understanding nuance and the consequences of your actions are not something he is capable of, though.
You’re not looking at the bigger picture here. Trump might have an opportunity to have a hotel in Moscow license his name and put it on the side of the building.
You’re 100% correct. This is the appropriate action we should take.
Will there be anymore goodwill for the USA?
As an American, my hopes and prayers are that the World will remember that approximately half of us are being held hostage inside of the clown car, and are being forced to go along for the ride.
Only 22% of the total US population voted for Orange McBurger. Don’t forget that.
Which makes me wonder, what is the breaking point for 78% of Americans, before they start burning it down, and building guillotines in front of ever federal building?
Which makes me wonder, what is the breaking point for 78% of Americans, before they start burning it down, and building guillotines in front of ever federal building?
Let’s get them all off the couch and to the voting booth first, and then we’ll worry about Revolution later after that.
It makes me laugh when people say 70% of people didn’t vote for him, what if they all marched into Washington… Like we can’t even get a lot of them to march into a voting booth
It would help if they were given a decent reason to go vote, yes?
Attemptimg to avoid fascism was enough of a reason for me to vote.
Cool. In 23 months we can aim for that.
In the meantime, are we going to work to get anyone worth voting for?
And, in the meantime… what are we going to do about today’s situation, not the voting one in over a year and a half away?
And, in the meantime… what are we going to do about today’s situation, not the voting one in over a year and a half away?
Speak out, push back, network, protest, hold them accountable. Democracy.
You don’t go full-Luigi until you’ve tried everything else.
We’ve tried the soap box, the ballot box, and the jury box.
There’s only one box left.
This is dispicable American apologetics. All those that didn’t vote are equally as guilty. America spoke and it said we are a hateful bigoted and foolish nation. Don’t forget that.
English may not be your first language.
Not voting for one person, doesn’t mean that people didn’t vote for another person.
That being said, the entire US population also contains non-voters because children can’t vote. (Although the Fascists seem to be trying to get rid of kids too.)
What the U.S. Federal Government is doing right now is not representative of the majority of its People.
Most Americans are good people and will stand up to keep our country, and the rest of the world, free from Tyranny.
It has been one month. Real life isn’t an App Store update, although right now, I really wish it was.
There are processes that have been created over two centuries being destroyed, and the ripple effect is only beginning.
Yeah, but I was quoting that “approximately half of us” number based on multiple polls, over time, and not just voting.
The nation is approximately 45% / 45% / 10%, in their belief systems.
In a very real sense we really are two nations occupying the same landmass.
I don’t know if anyone will remember this, but way back in the ?late 80s?, back before the Internet, there was a TV mini series on ABC, where the Soviet Union invaded America, and won.
And there’s a scene in that movie, at the end, where there’s a couple of Soviet top military persons, and they’re in front of a map of the US, and the US is split into multiple zones, with names like “Homeland”, etc.
Then the one Soviet person askes the other Soviet person about how they will maintain control of the country.
The other Soviet person talks about how the US it’s not just one people, but is just really groups of people, split in different area, divided, so they’ll be easy to control and suppress.
I keep thinking back to that movie, and specifically to that scene, when I see what’s going on today in the world.
About how we’re divided, with everyone just looking out for themselves.
Edit: Here we go. What I described is discussed in the “Climax and resolution” and “The Divided States of America” sections of that article/page.
Not unless we change some shit REAL QUICK.
Looking from a country bordering russia, the amount of goodwill towards the US has little weight. We have to carefully consider how and what we can trust. Short term business should be fine, strategic partnerships are more suspect. We need to also play the long game and try to be friends with the people, even if have a fake grin when talking with the government.
It’s been gone since we invaded Iraq
As an American, frankly, there shouldn’t have been much goodwill to begin with. But yeah, it feels pretty bad watching these vermin stab Ukraine in the back. And let’s be honest, these people and the ones that voted for them, my loved ones included, are fucking vermin.
I’m embarrassed to be an American.
All rulers are bullies not just these two
