TL;DR: We tried to move the community because of moderatorial concerns, but fumbled how we went about doing so.

First and Foremost:

We’d like to formally apologize for springing this on you all out of nowhere, and for taking so long to respond to the backlash. With retrospect, we understand that we should have notified you all beforehand to create an opportunity to give us feedback. We understand that a lot of respect and trust was lost, and we expect it’ll take a lot of work and a lot of time before we can earn it back, but we would be grateful if y’all gave us that chance.

What happened, and why?

The primary issue that incited this was because we don’t fully agree with the admin’s moderation policies. By and large they do a great job and align with us on mod actions, but there have been several cases where we strongly disagreed, and our choices were overruled.

For example, 2 months ago, Kolanaki reached out to us via email and said they were banned from 196 for “playing the victim” and asked us why we banned him, but we didn’t. Moss talked to them and realized that the ban was unjust after reviewing the comment he was banned for. If he had never contacted us, we wouldn’t have known about the ban, and they would have still thought we banned them.

There were a few similar events in a short time frame, leading to a few posts/comments in the community about the heavier modding policies. It’s possible some posts/comments were misunderstood by Ada, or she interpreted things differently than we would have, but it led to some bans that we felt were indeed heavy-handed, and would not violate our rules in even the most uncharitable of interpretations. We have found that this is an ongoing trend when it comes to moderation of our community from the Admins. We oppose this because it leads to many users who otherwise mean well ending up alienated and removed for reasons that are frankly completely unfair. This is, in our opinion, counter to what we set out to build in our community.

It was made clear to us that it was their instance, and that we didn’t have a say in who would be banned and what would be removed. This is, of course, perfectly valid. It’s their instance, therefore it’s up to them to decide what goes, but we no longer wanted to be the ones seen as accountable for moderation actions we have no control over. For this reason, we wanted to transfer out of lemmy.blahaj.zone. As much as we wanted to stay in the LGBTQ instance, we couldn’t come to an agreement with Ada, so we talked to her about transferring out and got her blessing.

How we messed up

The most major failing on our part is, of course, that we didn’t announce the migration beforehand. Besides that, we also didn’t explain why we made the choices we made and only gave very vague answers. We avoided sharing the justification for our actions because we didn’t want to cause drama and/or exacerbate the situation, but this lack of substantiating our actions only caused the situation to worsen.

Going forward (if we may), we won’t make the same mistakes again. From now on, we will attempt to be as transparent as possible.

FAQ

Why we chose lemmy.world

Many people have been asking about why we moved to lemmy.world. It already hosts the majority of large communities and besides this uncomfortable level of centralization, it has also been somewhat controversial as of late. Despite that, we still chose lemmy.world due to the following reasons:

  1. Moss’s communication with the admins, and their agreement to let us moderate the community as we see fit. Ruud, after looking over our rules, agreed to abstain from taking admin action to curate or otherwise moderate our community, unless absolutely necessary.
  2. The instance is large enough to support traffic without performance issues (other instances like lemm.ee, sh.itjust.works, and lemmy.dbzer0.com would have been fine too), and the instance has a certain degree of guaranteed longevity.
  3. Moss was given a list that was kindly made by the lemmy.world people as a part of our transfer detailing those who are banned on Blahaj.zone, but not on Lemmy.world, making moderation discrepancies much easier to clean up post-transfer.
  4. Our agreement with Ruud predated the now-rescinded policy changes
  5. It was, to the best of our knowledge, the most federated-with instance. We have come to understand that this is not necessarily the case.

Why not have another team take over the original 196?

This is a similar situation with what happened over on Reddit. 196 mods didn’t agree with admins and were eventually replaced (difference here is that we were not forced out, but chose to leave). As Lemmy was a large gathering spot for people fleeing Reddit, we felt it was better to try to keep the community together and move together. Having another team take over splits the community. The more fragmentation there is, the less longevity and volume of community each skew will have.

What about the possibility of more trolls, neoliberals, bad actors, sealions, and transphobes on Lemmy.world?

Another huge issue was that the mods and the community were not on the same page regarding lemmy.world, their admins, and their policies. We understand the concern about trolls/bad-actors/transphobes, but we feel well-equipped to handle these issues. In addition, we’ve been in contact with the lemmy.world admins for a while now, and they’ve assured us that they’d allow us to moderate our community however we saw fit. All this being said, we still failed to communicate that to the community before taking action, which has undermined any assurances that we have given after the fact. We cannot apologize enough for that.

What about the people who are using instances that are defederated from lemmy.world (e.g. Beehaw)

This is an unfortunate issue that we were not aware of at the time of transfer. We’re not sure what the solution is, but want to make our community as accessible as possible. Community solutions are welcome.

Did you migrate because of X? (addressing speculation)

  • We didn’t migrate due to anything related to neopronouns
  • We didn’t migrate due to us supposedly not wanting to use blahaj.zone lemmy accounts
  • We didn’t migrate due to us having friends who were banned from lemmy.blahaj.zone
  • We didn’t migrate due to us wanting to make the space less queer/leftist/etc
  • We didn’t migrate due to us getting secretly ousted by the Blahaj admin team

What now?

Well, we’re not sure. We could go back on our decision and stay on blahaj.zone, continue on lemmy.world, do both, or try something else. Truth be told, we don’t know what to do. For now, we will leave the comments open to civil community discourse, and choose our course of action from there.

Sincerely, Qaz, Rmbp, Greembow, A_Very_big_Fan, Peachy, and Moss.

  • nimble@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    20 minutes ago

    How we messed up

    The most major failing on our part is, of course, that we didn’t announce the migration beforehand.

    No, your major failing isn’t that you didn’t “announce” it, it’s that you didn’t consult your community first. Your actions have demonstrated that you think you own the community, but communities don’t belong to mods.

    Moreover you have clearly spelled out that your ideological differences are because you don’t want to “entertain trolls” which i can only assume means you want to ban people’s whose identities you deem invalid.

    Frankly, get off your high horse. 196 isn’t some serfdom. It was a community. You seem to have forgotten that.

  • arisunz@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    31 minutes ago

    lmfao at the people going

    the community doesn’t belong to you!!

    then step the fuck up and be a moderator or open your own /c/. stop whining to the people doing free labor for you. on a meme board. “lost the community’s trust” lmaooo

    • pixeltree@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      5 minutes ago

      Sorry, I think there’s a bit of miscommunication here. I’m one of the people who made that comment and I meant community in the people sense, and not in the subreddit sense. They can take their subreddit and move it, shred it, burn it, paint it blue, whatever. The point is, they seem to think of the people using the space as something that belongs to them, and that they can just take those people wherever they please. In reality, they have to rely on people following them, they can’t just pack them up and move them, and it’s very apparent that it’s a very unpopular decision and clear that no one is going to follow them to world.

      I’m just upset at the arrogance of them pretending they’re doing this for the good of the users when they asked no one. What makes a community great is the people in it, not the people “running” it (using the term loosely, as them actually having to do things is the reason they wanted to move). If they didn’t like it, they could’ve just passed it off to other people, but instead decided to try to pack us into a suitcase and leave.

  • fracture [he/him] @beehaw.org
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    4 hours ago

    i’m from beehaw and i support our decision to defederate from lemmy.world, and honestly, i agree with ada’s moderating decisions. i don’t come to 196 to deal with people “just asking questions” or getting transphobic trolls coming in and CERTAINLY not cis people whining about how they don’t get their good boy ally points

    especially if the post about you leaving 196 reports to languish unattended to is accurate (it’s from another user on this post who i can’t see while on beehaw, i’m guessing they’re from a defederated instance. they quoted ada, but i couldn’t find her comment as a source, so i don’t know if it’s real)

    if that’s real, we barely know what your moderation style is, and i’ve been giving you false credit for ada’s good moderation

    so we have reason to doubt where your moderating priorities are, you disagree with noted Good Judgement Admin ada, and you unilaterally decided both to move and where to move the community without consulting anyone first

    from my vantage, you couldn’t even protect us on world if you wanted to, and it really doesn’t seem like you want to, either

    i think the actual respectful thing to do at this point is to just step down. y’all have disrupted this community enough. there are mods who are interested in, and understand the values of, this community. values that you obviously lack

    let them take over and have things return to normal. make a /c/196 on world if you want, it sounds like there won’t be a lot of content to moderate anyways

  • jawa21@lemmy.sdf.org
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    5 hours ago

    The actions and attitude presented by the mod team are inexcusable. We have already taken our toys and left. It’s time to step down.

  • WillStealYourUsername@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    6 hours ago

    I understand two of you were mostly behind the move. Perhaps those two should step down and new mods be brought in. Kind of hard to trust you after all this.

  • ruplicant@sh.itjust.works
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    5 hours ago

    so this only gets undone once there is another community created on .LBZ that starts getting traction and your new community on .world risks becoming irrelevant, along with your relative power in the situation…

  • Phuntis@sopuli.xyz
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    6 hours ago

    I only saw one other person mention the post that’s supposedly a good example of your disagreements with adas moderation but that makes it even more clear you need to resign and leave ada was right for removing that comment it’s the typical “oh woe is me I just asked innocent questions and the angry trans people try to paint me as the bad guy” trans people don’t get annoyed if you ask them a genuinely innocent question about their experience but they will get annoyed if you ask them “just innocent questions” where it’s very clear what your real views are and what you’re really doing adas just reading between the lines and that’s a good thing that’s how you avoid the sealioning that .world would’ve brought along and you say oh they reversed that decision and you would be allowed to ban sealions and you can mod how you like and .world won’t interfere but it makes it very clear you wouldn’t ban them anyway you agree with the .world admins anyway just leave you clearly don’t represent the community in the slightest and have completely different views of how this community should be run hand over the moderation to the onehundredninetysix mod team and go do whatever you want on .world

    • valentinesmith@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      3 hours ago

      Agreed especially on the comment as a showcase of „mod differences“.

      I think this just rather corroborates Ada‘s statement of how there were multiple reports the mods did not follow up on and how Ada had to eventually always do it.

      So even with a good faith reading I do not see how this is a problematic ban and not just a common recurring topic which this instance has always protected us from, which is the whole reason I am on this instance.

      While I understand that the „modding differences“ were the reason you aimed to migrate, I as a user do not remotely see the benefits of a move when it was Ada that stepped up to do moderation. Especially if as Ada mentioned our community had reported these instances, a move would just signify a deterioration of our experience.

      I have to reiterate that I have always appreciated Ada‘s decisions. The stepping up and sheltering many of us on the Reddit exodus and providing me with one of the few places nowadays I can go to and expect a civil, homely and communal experience.

    • MagicPterodactyl@lemmy.ml
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      6 hours ago

      I was thinking the same. If this is their best example of Ada going over the mod team’s heads, how could this possibly justify an instance move?

  • AItoothbrush@lemmy.zip
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    5 hours ago

    What is a sealion in this context?

    What about the possibility of more trolls, neoliberals, bad actors, sealions, and transphobes on Lemmy.world?

  • Roflmasterbigpimp@lemmy.world
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    7 hours ago

    Rmbp

    Is this supposed to be me? Sorry, but I don’t write a single word of this.__.

    Not that I disagree, but I have not written or read anything before posting this. But nevertheless I thank you for the Update :D

    The Feddit.de Instance and therefore my feddit.de Account is broken beyond repair. If anyone can just kick him out, this would be really nice since I can’t even log in anymore.

    What happend to feddit.de?

    The whole Feddit.de instance died under mysterious circumstances.

    The owner of the instance left for a work trip to Southeast Asia and never came back—at least, he never came back online. Then the instance started having technical troubles, which we couldn’t fix without the owner. After continued degeneration, we moved all communities to feddit.org. I can’t even log into my Feddit.de account anymore because it’s so broken.

    Even the domain Feddit.de is broken.

      • Roflmasterbigpimp@lemmy.world
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        5 hours ago

        I’m suprised that this don’t got downvoted like my answers on the .world 196.

        Perhaps because I’m not a Mod here?

        I really tried to help over there and still got downvoted .__.

        • Walk_blesseD@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          3 hours ago

          I think people’s interactions with you were coloured by the fact that you were one of about three people who were vocally supportive of the mod team’s move. That you’re (unknowingly at the time) a member of it probably didn’t help, but was likely secondary.