Relevant xkcd as always
It is legitimately cool when a bunch of mathematicians get together in a room and say “Look at all the cool shapes and patterns we made,” then show it to a physicist who goes all frantic and starts shouting “OMG! I understand how stuff works!”
Gotta love how the more “Applied” a field is, the more “Impure” it is.
You guys believe in objective reality?
Not as something we have access to but yeah!
Calling a made up construct “the absolute truth” is hilarious
The test to know if anything is an absolute truth is if it is called an absolute truth. If it is called an absolute truth, then it isn’t an absolute truth. If it isn’t called an absolute truth, then it isn’t an absolute truth. Absolute truths don’t exist. If someone tells you something is an absolute truth, stop listening to them.
You could say it’s an absolute truth that absolute truths do not exist.
The way I see it, axioms and notation are made up but everything that follows is absolute truth
Axioms can be demonstrated. They don’t have to be purely theoretical.
Mass and Energy are axiomatic to the study of physics, for instance. The periodic table is axiomatic to understanding chemistry. You can establish something as self-evident that’s also demonstrably true.
One could argue that mathematics is less a physical thing than a language to describe a thing. But once you have that shared language, you can factually guarantee certain fundamental ideas. The idea of an empty set is demonstrable, for instance. You can even demonstrate the idea of infinity, assuming you’re not existing in a closed system.
You can posit axioms that don’t fit reality, too. And you can build up features of this hypothetical space that diverge from our own. But then you can demonstrate why those axioms can’t apply to this space and agree as such with whomever you’re trying to convey ideas.
When we talk about “absolute truth”, we’re talking about a point of universal rational consensus. Mathematics is a language that helps us extend subjective observation into objective conclusion. That’s what makes it a useful tool in scientific inquiry.
I’d say if your axioms don’t hold you wouldn’t go far in your quest for truth.
The thing that is absolute is a predicate of the form “if [axioms] then [theorems]”.
And the fun thing about if statements is that they can be true even when the premise is false.
Of course in boolean algebra “if [false] then p” is always true no matter “p”, but it’s not telling us much.
That’s not a gotcha. It’s basically just the definition of an axiom.
Math ain’t made up. Math is discovered.
I don’t think that’s a settled debate IIRC
They’re made up constructs that reflect the absolute truth when applied correctly (from his perspective).
I was about to say “incompleteness theorem”!
The number of people having jobs is record low in this picture
There’s a real gravity to that statement and it definitely adds up.
Because they are students? Both are high demand professions, I don’t get it.
I guess that the commentor meant that those kinds of thoughts don’t get you jobs, and doesn’t know how easy it is to get a job with a degree in either of those fields. Same for the upvoters.
You hiring by chance?
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I don’t understand this meme format. Are the speech bubbles the texts received or the texts sent? It looks like they’re typing, so could be both.
I assumed the bubbles are the texts sent, but I could see the argument for the other side too.
Computer science, we use both of your tools to solve problems. And make an electronic canarys aka AI
Which dont solve much :/
The progams we use at work, are downright magical. Yo computer dude, how can a computer be inconsistent?
UHHHHHHH the little men inside take a coffee break :D *Windows 95 blue BSOD ensues *
Bruh… then imagine how hard a philosopher’s world would be like…
If someone needs another existental crisis here’s a prompt:
- Is math universal or is it a system of thought invented by humans and it only makes sense to us?
Good thing physicists solved that problem already; if everything is made up and can only be observed through our preconceived notions and there’s no way to prove a world beyond them, then it doesn’t matter. The universe we can observe is reality and everything beyond that is beyond meaningful definition and is therefore useless, which is how we define “philosophy”.
All I know is that
1 = 0.9999…1 = 9/9, yeah
Then how can it be Truth at all?
If
3 * 1/3 = 3/1 * 1/3 = 3/3 = 1And
1/3 = 0.3333…Then
0.3333… * 3 = 0.9999… = 1I know how it works, I’m asking how can something so offensive be a universal truth?
If you’re offended by truth, that sounds like a you problem.
The universe is not a nice place. It never was, and never will be. This universe is merely a proving ground for the strong to conquer, and the weak to perish. You either offend, or be offended.
Models. Humans hold models of the world in their minds, math helps you understand and create more complex and consistent models. You always exist in a simulation of your own construction to make sense of the universe.
My feeling is that no model can ever fully capture a complete description of reality, the information isn’t compressible to such a degree that approximations or abstractions can be lossless.
Most of what we consider to be invention is merely combinatoric novelty.
Math is definitely universal. The math behind things in science wouldn’t suddenly change on different alien planets. Take things like V = IR. That relies on multiplication and division. It’s gonna be the same on other planets. The units, notation, etc. will be different but the concepts would be the same.
I’m no STEM major, so I may be way off, but this is how I see it.
V = IR isn’t math. It’s a way of defining the relationship and outcome of two specific physical qualities. It says that we combine the resistance of a medium ( R) with the current flowing through it (I) into another
jointemergent quality we call voltage (V). We do this because it makes our understanding of the physical world easier to manage since this relationship has helpful applications.Math is simply patterns in the relationships of quantities. It excludes any physical units or qualities. In other words, math is the art of counting.
I think you’re misunderstanding my point. I’m not saying the relationship of V = IR means math exists, what I’m saying is that because that relationship factually exists aliens would have a way to quantify that relationship. Because of that they would have a way to express the concepts of multiplication and division.
Math is a tool!
Your a tool!
❤️
…
you’re*
(I’m sorry T_T)
Theory without application is useless, isn’t it?
In social science, theory requires application. Otherwise, it’s just a cool story, bro.
But my gonads are getting stimulated.
BURN THE HERETIC!
But seriously though, yes, but useless isn’t the same as pointless. Art by some definitions is useless, but it can still have a point, even if that point it just to be fun.
Theories can be a stepping stone to other theories. Until we explore those chains, we don’t know if there is anything useful at the end.
E.g. initially, lasers were a solution looking for a problem. An interesting quirk possible due to some interesting bit of physics.
Maths explores idea spaces. Much of that is purely of interest to other mathematicians. However, it sometimes intersects with areas of interest to other scientists, at which point it becomes extremely useful.
