It’s an Ubuntu downstream maintained by Linux box maker System76 which is targeted for both general usability and design/media applications. They will soon be debuting their own home-spun desktop environment, Cosmic DE, which is highly anticipated by the Linux community.
How does the community here feel about this distribution and the company that has brought it to us? How do you feel about the projects that they’re working on, and their goals for the distribution moving forward?
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I really don’t like that underscore.
The correct way of saying it out loud is “pop exclamation point underscore O S”
And I thought it’s popos which is German and stands for asses
No, you’re thinking of SUSE, which is German for “boringbutstablelinuxdistribution”.
Oddly, that short word-long word English/German translation thing works both ways.
No, your thinking of RHEL which is danish for “redhatsegregiouslicensingbullshit”.
Funny, it used to stand for “payfortwentyfloppiesorcompileitfromscratchwedareyou”
It only took me 28 hours after a seven day download at 28.8 KBPS on my 25MHz 486 Packard Bell POS, but those motherfuckers never got a penny from me!
Gentoo enters the chat
Don’t you even fucking get me started, I am so serious, lol
Edit: gentoo was why I said, “fuck this, I’m buying a Mac,” and refused to even think about Linux again for 5-6 years. And I have the OS X/macOS’s being UNIX to thank for that, btw.
The “shield” Apple puts over its OS can be pierced by powerusers who know how to use the terminal, and there are package managers like Homebrew that allow users to install ports of Linux/UNIX/BSD userland apps. In reality, macOS is an extremely-customized build of BSD that’s locked down in many ways, and runs a proprietary filesystem and on property hardware. (That’s a lot of suck, yes). But, otherwise, it’s still POSIX, and so similar to Linux as to easily facilitate a transition. And, because of it, I drifted back to Linux.
Not necessarily because of macOS’s shortcomings, but because I like to tinker and fiddle, and Linux scratches that itch.
I’m reasonably sure it’s the popping sound you make with your mouth oh ess.
Agreed
PopOSwould be better (IMO)I quite like “Pop!OS”.
Or perhaps a play on IBM: OS/Pop!
Now that I think about it. It’s just the !_ being beside each other that bugs me: OS_Pop! is cool.
Me a programmer has a bigger issue with !
You and me both. I’d rather it just be Pop!OS. Or just, Pop. Or the better term: Soda.
I wish they based it on Debian. It definitely earns my personal recommendation for default distros alongside LMDE
I dont understand why they didnt. Debian with gnome is essentially the same imo.
Ubuntu is Debian with more up-to-date packages and a lot of additional third party packages. There’s a lot of companies who produce development toolkits, frameworks, and applications that are explicitly built for the Ubuntu base. Some governmental agencies and organizations also require access to packages and repositories that have been audited by security agencies, which Ubuntu has gone through the process of getting certification for certain kernels and their Ubuntu Pro repositories. All of which are useful for real world customers.
Regardless of shortcomings in Snap, Pop does not rely on Snaps, and offers its own packaging for things that would otherwise require Snap on Ubuntu.
Thanks for elaborating. Learn something new every day. :)
I use pop os extensively so I knew about that but the government/security stuff was interesting. The main reason I went away from ubuntu was snap and pop is very useful.
If a company with some resources makes a good Debian unstable based distro with a decent release cycle (could even be yearly), they’ll dominate the desktop market.
Made the switch to Pop!_OS from Win10 half a year ago, and my machine’s been purring like a happy cat ever since. All my games still run (thanks, Proton!) and some even had a significant performance boost (RDR2 being the best example) with a 3090. Only problem I had was getting DaVinci Resolve to work properly, but I caved and bought the Studio version which runs perfectly.
Your story is almost a carbon copy of mine. Really enjoyed using Pop.
I’ve only used DaVinci for small projects, so I don’t know their eco system too well, but what made you buy a product when you were having problems getting it to work? :O Does the studio version offer better hardware acceleration or something like that?
It had to do with encoding which works out-of-the-box in the Studio version, and not at all in the free version on Linux. I could’ve solved it by using something like Handbrake, but I didn’t want to add the extra step to my workflow. I also bought my Blackmagic 6K second-hand, so I’ve been wanting to properly pay them for their awesome products for a while now anyway.
I like their window manager, pop-shell, and use it on Fedora. I used to daily Pop but just can’t stand Ubuntu.
As someone newer who has only used Ubuntu and Mint, what do you get elsewhere?
Why can’t you stand Ubuntu?
I imagine it being about snaps. People seems to hate snap with a passion.
I still use Ubuntu in certain cases. Their LTS offerings are excellent.
Yea but why?
I think their current modified gnome is the best desktop that exists anywhere. Cosmic is a full desktop environment with an actual (auto) tiling window manager… a combo I think should be more common in desktops. The way they implement the tiling makes it really easy for beginners to use because you can turn it on/off by keyboard shortcut or clicking the plugin icon, and because you can just drag n drop windows to change their tiled positions (along with keyboard shortcuts if preferred). It’s hard to go back regular “window managers”.
The System76 devs have good ideas, they seem really cool, and sane! They have been a net positive for the Linux community and desktop development IMO. I am SO hyped for the new Cosmic DE!
You realise KDE’s had tiling for years, right? (Bismuth and then native)
There’s a very large gap between having tiling, and having excellent auto-tiling capabilities with intuitive shortcuts and behaviors. COSMIC’s autotiling was designed from the ground up to be just as usable with a mouse as it is with a keyboard.
Bismuth (and Krohnkite before) never worked nearly as well for me, and AFAIK are both abandoned. The built in tiling is closer to FancyTiles/tiling zones, not auto-tiling like Pop Shell. Pop Shell also has been here for “years” by that metric lol
Fair cop, a matter of definition of good enough, I guess.
Well not really because I never stuck around on KDE very long. But I’m aware you can have tiling on any DE if you want. Its about the out of box experience you get on Pop. Its also important (for me) that the tiling is done automatically, no fiddling.
I generally find it to be a family friendly sheen on top of ubuntu so I’ve been installing it for friends and family lately. I would prefer debian based but shrug. They’ll probably get there eventually.
POP is an excellent distro for a number of use cases. I can’t speak to System 76 hardware but Pop is definitely one of the good Distros. I have used it for about 5ish years to run Davinci Resolve on video editing laptops and workstations. Another use case for POP was for breaking Mac OS acclimated relatives out of their walled gardens. Relatives as old as 80 have had very little problem adjusting to it after having help installing it. Looking forward to Cosmic but I will make sure I have backups and other stuff to tinker with during the transition - was the same way during Wayland transition on my other machines.
Positives
- Davinci Resolve working with a little bit of fiddling and continues to run solidly.
- No hassle with Nvidia drivers on editing laptop.
- 4-5 years daily driver on Thinkpads (t460,13) and other older laptops (daily use)
- Gaming on Nvidia good.
- Elder folks adjust easily from Mac OS. Its basically Macbuntu for them without the complete pile of shit that is Snaps.
Negatives
- POP Shop was kinda shite. Had a few problems years ago. Wasn’t patient during upgrades or used terminal. A couple of shitty things happening recently but looking forward to testing out everything Cosmic (I have a rock solid edit station that will remain AMD on Endeavour OS to make sure I can still work).
- Name doesn’t bother me, but would be better as just POP OS
I like their company and what they do for Linux. I wish I had a use for a laptop but then I would be stuck between system76 or framework.
And tuxedo. Depending on your country.
It was too far from the metal for me. But it is a great distribution. Especially if you’re looking for fancy pants gaming ability or just turn-key ready to roll MS alternative.
Lemme guess: arch? ;)
😀 I sure sound like it. Debian these days though. I’m too lazy for Arch anymore.
Right? I’m ok with my computer being a bit of a hobby, but it shouldn’t be a side-job unless I’m getting paid, goddammit.
Absolutely! When I was 20ish and new, yeah. But it hit me about 3years ago thats ALL I do professionally is automate as much as I can to make life easier for users and companies. Why am I not doing that for me?
On a side note, I’m seriously loving the immutable distributions. I’m thinking that’s my new direction.
Sorry to rattle on lol
Like… I like to tinker and fiddle, but, at the end of the day, I want stable and reliable. So I love PopOS, but should I really be on Fedora or openSUSE Tumbleweed? Like… eh… am i old?
Lol
😀
You sound like the target audience for Bluefin. I’m running it and it’s excellent.
Stop it, you
I suspect it will replace Ubuntu as the new noob distro, which is a good thing. Doesn’t run as fast on older hardware as mint w cinnamon, but that’s not a big deal. I’m hoping the new DE will improve that.
Love how feature rich it is, especially love the switch to toggle tiling windows on the desktop.
Use it on my lenovo carbon x1 flawlessly. Love it.
Solid but occasionally buggy
COSMIC looks cool
Visuals were striking, but on non-System 76 hardware the thing as a whole broke several times cuz updates. Would love to try out some System76 hardware one of these days though.
Ive had good success across three non system 76 machines. It is Ubuntu under the covers. I’d expect most of it to work as well as ubuntu does.
Personally, I’ve installed it on at least a couple of dozen machines that definitely weren’t from system 76, and not one of them them had a problem.
I’m curious, what sort of issues did you have?
Simple updates brought the system down, it was long enough ago that I do not remember the exact cause but I remember the frustration lol.
Funny. I‘m using it on an asus a15 and its rocksolid so far. Sorry you made that experience though.
A semi-rolling distribution, with access to Ubuntu’s many PPA’s, and easily removable extensions that reveal the lovely vanilla Gnome experience, it’s great!
Also they are making a Rust desktop, which I am currently running, though not daily driving.
How are you running COSMIC? I’m on Fedora.
There’s a COPR repo
ryanabx/cosmic-epochAnd it works and seems to be regularly updated! Thanks for bringing this to my attention!
I am on Pop!_OS, I ran
sudo apt install cosmic*.Don’t worry, you’re not missing out on much, running video games, or any OpenGL thing including 2D games and GPU-accelerated terminal emulators is a bad experience, and alt+f4 isn’t implemented, and f11 to fullscreen is janky, and theming for buttons and such is clearly alpha.
The promise of an Arabic-supporting, Rust based, GPU-accelerated terminal is too attractive, however, as I was teared between multilingual terminal, Wezterm, Alacritty and Kitty for a while.
The first is horrible at everything but supporting languages, the second is really janky, the third doesn’t support tabs, the fourth has bad theming and customization.
what are the benefits of a gpu-accelerated terminal?
Consumes less energy (CPU) while also rendering more responsively.
You’re not missing out on much
Seems that you’re right. It’s almost usable currently, but it lacks some essential things for me, mainly some further snappiness and customisable key binds (old habits die hard and I’m not adapting my habits and workflow to new keybinds).
But after these get fixed, I can see myself potentially running COSMIC. This makes me even more excited for what the future will bring.
Edit: Also, sloppy focus aka focus-follows-mouse
And an option for static workspaces i.e a set number of workspaces that are constantly there, instead of dynamic workspaces that close with your windows and change your workflow because you closed the window on Workspace 4 so workspace 5 is now workspace 4 so when you go looking for the window on workspace 5, it’s not there.
Also, sloppy focus aka focus-follows-mouse
It’s one of those features I always wanted to try, but always forget to look up how to actually enable and start using it, so I never actually tried it.
Highly recommend trying it, especially on a tiling window manager! (doesn’t seem to be available for COSMIC yet, and I don’t think it’s in other DEs either, but I know floating WMs like Openbox had sloppy focus iirc.
What GPU configuration do you have? I don’t have any of these issues. If NVIDIA, you have to wait for NVIDIA to release explicit sync Wayland drivers.
Inaccurate report,
I just ran Neovim in terminal and was used to Neovide, so I thought it was choppy.
Intel HD 630.
There is, however, a 2D game - which I am not going to disclose the name of - that’s pretty broken. (It uses Adobe Flash as an engine)
Also the steam client doesn’t maximize properly with tiling but I am sure that’s reported.
I have been daily driving Cosmic for a week now; it caused me Arch-syndrome, everyday I run
sudo apt updatehoping to get some polish to the desktop.Edit: there’s more…
Neovide’s transparency is completely broken, and shows a blank, though not a pitch black, color and screenshotting it results in seeing the text with a checkered background. (In the resulting screenshot only) (Running on Proton 8.0-5)
clipboard=unnamed plus, the setting supposed to unify Neovim’s clipboard and system’s, doesn’t work.clipboard: error : Error: target STRING not availableI also was unable to transfer a file to my phone using Cosmic Files, but Nemo worked, though I read that’s fixed in some Blog.
Edit II: I just discovered
popdev:masterit seems to be a general unstable branch instead of just Cosmic things, but I took the risk and added it, I just have to remember to remove it once 24.04’s releasedWhat report are you referring to?
running video games, or any OpenGL thing including 2D games and GPU-accelerated terminal emulators is a bad experience
The thing you replied to; I don’t open social media often enough to reply on time, so I sent you a late reply.
I’m interested to try their Cosmic desktop later this year.
Overall, seems like a solid company, I’ve heard good things about their laptops, although I’ve never had one myself.
Pop_OS as a distro, heard generally good things about. The few times I’ve messed around with it have been fine. The folks that stick with it seem to like it.
