I disagree. They might not go out of their way to recommend windows but when any other alternative is mentioned they 100% start arguing.
I’ve seen people on r/programming complain that they hated linux and open source cause it gave them a way to use a feature in vlc that wasn’t there natively. The other day I saw someone complaining that linux had window rules.
That small niche that you are mentioning, I agree with you. But the people who for example turn down Linux because it is difficult, most of the times they would be right.
I know I will get downvoted but bear with me. To the average Andy who has grown up using Windows XP and then 7 and then 10/11, never having to open up a terminal, not dealing with software repositories and just downloading an exe from the web, and just having the most compatible operating system in pretty much any scenario, is more important to them, than the privacy and security snd freedom that you get with Linux, which as they say, with great power, comes great responsibility (and headaches). Yes, I know there’s Linux Mint, but for example something like my new laptops microphone not working with ANY distro because the kernel does not support it yet, that is a Linux issue that is a huge pain in the ass even for an experienced Linux user, let alone a fresh user who has no idea what is going on.
I still think we should push Linux as much as we can because as the market share increases support for Linux will also grow making it a more n more viable option to switch to, but generally Windows users turning down Linux DO have very valid arguments for not wanting to use Linux.
As a long time Linux user, I had a humbling experience when I started using OpenBSD and had to look up all the details like “what is /dev/rsd1c?” or “how do I connect to wifi automatically?” It’s not hard, and it’s right there in the manpages, but it was a little overwhelming figuring out everything. And then I was already used to the unix-like terminology, I can only imagine coming from windows.
I think the key statement there is “has grown up using windows”. Using Linux is no harder than using Windows, and in many scenarios it can even be easier. The smart kids these days are learning Linux first instead of taking a detour through old-school Windows.
Better hardware support will come with more popularity, there are always bugs with any operating system.
I doubt those issues, like the mic not working, are worth having ads in the start menu, candy crush being installed automatically at various times without user consent or being dropped from updates like a hot potato after a few years, even though the hardware is still okayish.
Apropos hardware: Windows is slow AF. It always runs dozens of silly services that waste resources. Now some Linux distros run a lot too (like cups when you don’t have a printer), but for some reason Linux doesn’t eat RAM for breakfast.
oh trust me, it is pretty annoying to not have a working microphone in a day and age where zoom and teams are used at so many work places and/or so many job interviews. Having a dual boot just because of thator using my old laptop and also having to have signed in to my emails and blah blah blah is a major inconvenience that once again,the average Andy who does not care about the privacy or ads, just does not see it worth putting up with.
Listen there will always be case by case scenarios but the fact of the matter is that there are WAY more things that go wrong on desktop Linux compared to Windows. Plus, who the hell is using Windows Server 2016 on their personal computer? Nobody. They are most likely running Windows Home or Windows Pro that came preinstalled on their laptop and it just works out of the box. In my whole life that I have used Windows I have ran into less issues that I had to spend hours searching online fixing the issue than I had to using Linux for the past year (and once again the problems I have been having are kernel dependent not distro dependent). I still use Linux as my main OS for 95% of my tasks because I value the privacy and security and open source nature enough to put up with the troubles of Linux. Preference and tolerance is not ab objective measurement. If Linux was already as easy to use and as compatible as windows, every single Linux user would delete their Windows partition and VMs and Wine wouldn’t need to be a thing.
So considering most everyone who thinks Linux is too hard is going off the state of Linux 10 years ago or longer, I cannot agree with you. “You can possibly have an issue” is not something that even Microsoft’s huge budget can save them from.
I’ve spent 0 minutes trying to fix it, but in my defense, that’s exactly as long as I should have to spend fixing it, and it’s exactly as long as I had to think about it on Windows.
That has as much to do with installing the os yourself vs buying a machine with the os preinstalled… I’ve had plenty of machines where some part or other doesn’t work well or at all because they need drivers that aren’t available for whatever reason…
That sucks. Yeah, there’s a million combinations of hardware out there. I on the other hand installed linux on two pretty ancient laptops and revived them from being too slow to even use with windows, and the builtin web cam worked perfectly on both. /shrug
No one is saying Linux has no challenges, just that the image of it that most people have is outdated. I’ve had issues on windows with some extremely stupid hardware issues myself. Can’t pretend it’s perfect either.
I don’t think anyone is deranged enough to call Windows “perfect”. It’s just the most supported operating system by virtue of being the most widely used operating system. And it will likely stay that way until enough people like us show up in the usage statistics for manufacturers to consider first-class Linux support.
The comment I made originally though doesn’t imply that Linux is anywhere near the most supported. I’m just saying, in like 90% of cases someone who could install and use Windows could do the same with Linux, and many would even prefer it.
You found an example of Linux being a pain, dude I could talk all day about Windows doing the same. The last time I tried to give Windows a chance as a dev machine – WSL would be broken literally every couple of days. It’s a joke of a broken system especially in light of how solid people think it is.
Go to Steam Forums for a game that doesn’t support Linux
Post a new thread, politely asking about the possibility of native Linux support
A Windows fanboy appears to tell you that you are wrong
Warning: Since the introduction of the Steam Deck, it’s a bit harder to conjure up a Windows fanboy on the Steam forums, so you might have to try on a couple of game forums to conjure up your Windows fanboy.
It was a default for so long that people just got used to the feel of it and its “ecosystem” if you can call it that.
I use Win at home and at work as my main desktop, because of familiarity, the apps I got used to and because I just don’t feel comfortable with any Linux UI. I get annoyed when the Win UI gets even slightly changed between OS versions, so imagine how it would be for me just switching to Linux. I have a dual boot, but the Linux partitions always gather dust no matter the distro.
But I wouldn’t touch a Windows server. I’m apt with the Linux on work servers, my home server, RaspberryPi and routers. It feeels like having swiss army knives and I feel at home in a command line.
This doesn’t make me a fanboy, but I do get raised eyebrows from co-workers.
True. I’ve been enjoying Windows 10 now that I’ve really tuned it to my liking. It took too much work to get it there though so I don’t really fanboy for it.
I wish there was a legitimate way to get the LTSC version because it’s very close to my tuned one
Yeah, one of the main reasons I switched my gaming computer from Windows 10 to Linux was the fact that there’s so much less setup on Linux whenever you need to reinstall onto a new SSD or motherboard. (Also, that you dont need to reinstall for a new motherboard on Linux)
There’s a lot out there if you know where to look.
Plenty in the windows support forums. Look for the guy who’s not an MS employee still there helping people. Don’t make too much fun, they’re the only ones who’re any good and sorting out issues…
Are they fanboys, though? I used to be one of those guys back when I used to help debug Windows permissions issues (it was always permissions issues) when getting .NET code to run on Windows 7. If anything, I think a lot of Windows people know that everything on Linux is far better supported and had more developer oversight, but ultimately these were the tools you had to use to use your language of choice.
If anything, it led to such a deep imposter syndrome that I ended up moving away from C#. While I could be just as productive in Windows as I was in Linux (even today), having to use “different” tools or run “special” commands to get something as basic as Ruby running on your OS constantly made you feel that you were running against the current.
Not sure how long ago you used C#, but these days the entire .NET Framework and C# compiler are open-source and cross-platform, and the latest versions of .NET have native ahead-of-time compilation (“Native AoT”) which lets you compile C# apps into a single executable file that can run on a system that doesn’t have the framework installed.
Visual Studio is still Windows-only, but VS Code is available everywhere and has good C# support, and JetBrains Rider is great too.
You can get PowerShell on Linux too. PowerShell is really nice once you get a feel for it. You pipe objects rather than strings, so there’s a lot you can do easily without needing to use grep/cut/sed to manipulate string streams.
I stopped around 2016, so it’s been a while, but it’s something I still really miss. I remember .NET Core being a thing, but didn’t see enough movement in places looking to transition away, so I jumped over to a different stack.
.NET Core was renamed to .NET in 2020 to signal that it’s the main framework now. It had mostly reached feature parity with the old .NET Framework by then. .NET Framework is still on version 4.6.x and isn’t receiving updates other than bug fixes, so a lot of people have migrated to .NET.
C# keeps evolving and there’s a bunch of useful language features that have been added even just in the last few years.
If you show me a windows fanboy I’ll show you a bridge for sale.
Yea I don’t really know anyome who is a fanboy of Windows most ppl just stick with it cause its the default for many things
I disagree. They might not go out of their way to recommend windows but when any other alternative is mentioned they 100% start arguing.
I’ve seen people on r/programming complain that they hated linux and open source cause it gave them a way to use a feature in vlc that wasn’t there natively. The other day I saw someone complaining that linux had window rules.
That small niche that you are mentioning, I agree with you. But the people who for example turn down Linux because it is difficult, most of the times they would be right.
I know I will get downvoted but bear with me. To the average Andy who has grown up using Windows XP and then 7 and then 10/11, never having to open up a terminal, not dealing with software repositories and just downloading an exe from the web, and just having the most compatible operating system in pretty much any scenario, is more important to them, than the privacy and security snd freedom that you get with Linux, which as they say, with great power, comes great responsibility (and headaches). Yes, I know there’s Linux Mint, but for example something like my new laptops microphone not working with ANY distro because the kernel does not support it yet, that is a Linux issue that is a huge pain in the ass even for an experienced Linux user, let alone a fresh user who has no idea what is going on.
I still think we should push Linux as much as we can because as the market share increases support for Linux will also grow making it a more n more viable option to switch to, but generally Windows users turning down Linux DO have very valid arguments for not wanting to use Linux.
As a long time Linux user, I had a humbling experience when I started using OpenBSD and had to look up all the details like “what is /dev/rsd1c?” or “how do I connect to wifi automatically?” It’s not hard, and it’s right there in the manpages, but it was a little overwhelming figuring out everything. And then I was already used to the unix-like terminology, I can only imagine coming from windows.
I think the key statement there is “has grown up using windows”. Using Linux is no harder than using Windows, and in many scenarios it can even be easier. The smart kids these days are learning Linux first instead of taking a detour through old-school Windows.
Better hardware support will come with more popularity, there are always bugs with any operating system.
I doubt those issues, like the mic not working, are worth having ads in the start menu, candy crush being installed automatically at various times without user consent or being dropped from updates like a hot potato after a few years, even though the hardware is still okayish.
Apropos hardware: Windows is slow AF. It always runs dozens of silly services that waste resources. Now some Linux distros run a lot too (like cups when you don’t have a printer), but for some reason Linux doesn’t eat RAM for breakfast.
oh trust me, it is pretty annoying to not have a working microphone in a day and age where zoom and teams are used at so many work places and/or so many job interviews. Having a dual boot just because of thator using my old laptop and also having to have signed in to my emails and blah blah blah is a major inconvenience that once again,the average Andy who does not care about the privacy or ads, just does not see it worth putting up with.
I can make Bluetooth work under Linux, but not windows server 2016…
Listen there will always be case by case scenarios but the fact of the matter is that there are WAY more things that go wrong on desktop Linux compared to Windows. Plus, who the hell is using Windows Server 2016 on their personal computer? Nobody. They are most likely running Windows Home or Windows Pro that came preinstalled on their laptop and it just works out of the box. In my whole life that I have used Windows I have ran into less issues that I had to spend hours searching online fixing the issue than I had to using Linux for the past year (and once again the problems I have been having are kernel dependent not distro dependent). I still use Linux as my main OS for 95% of my tasks because I value the privacy and security and open source nature enough to put up with the troubles of Linux. Preference and tolerance is not ab objective measurement. If Linux was already as easy to use and as compatible as windows, every single Linux user would delete their Windows partition and VMs and Wine wouldn’t need to be a thing.
So considering most everyone who thinks Linux is too hard is going off the state of Linux 10 years ago or longer, I cannot agree with you. “You can possibly have an issue” is not something that even Microsoft’s huge budget can save them from.
My laptop camera still doesn’t work on Linux lol
I’ve spent 0 minutes trying to fix it, but in my defense, that’s exactly as long as I should have to spend fixing it, and it’s exactly as long as I had to think about it on Windows.
That has as much to do with installing the os yourself vs buying a machine with the os preinstalled… I’ve had plenty of machines where some part or other doesn’t work well or at all because they need drivers that aren’t available for whatever reason…
That sucks. Yeah, there’s a million combinations of hardware out there. I on the other hand installed linux on two pretty ancient laptops and revived them from being too slow to even use with windows, and the builtin web cam worked perfectly on both. /shrug
No one is saying Linux has no challenges, just that the image of it that most people have is outdated. I’ve had issues on windows with some extremely stupid hardware issues myself. Can’t pretend it’s perfect either.
I don’t think anyone is deranged enough to call Windows “perfect”. It’s just the most supported operating system by virtue of being the most widely used operating system. And it will likely stay that way until enough people like us show up in the usage statistics for manufacturers to consider first-class Linux support.
The comment I made originally though doesn’t imply that Linux is anywhere near the most supported. I’m just saying, in like 90% of cases someone who could install and use Windows could do the same with Linux, and many would even prefer it.
You found an example of Linux being a pain, dude I could talk all day about Windows doing the same. The last time I tried to give Windows a chance as a dev machine – WSL would be broken literally every couple of days. It’s a joke of a broken system especially in light of how solid people think it is.
Your can conjure them up quite easily.
It was a default for so long that people just got used to the feel of it and its “ecosystem” if you can call it that.
I use Win at home and at work as my main desktop, because of familiarity, the apps I got used to and because I just don’t feel comfortable with any Linux UI. I get annoyed when the Win UI gets even slightly changed between OS versions, so imagine how it would be for me just switching to Linux. I have a dual boot, but the Linux partitions always gather dust no matter the distro.
But I wouldn’t touch a Windows server. I’m apt with the Linux on work servers, my home server, RaspberryPi and routers. It feeels like having swiss army knives and I feel at home in a command line.
This doesn’t make me a fanboy, but I do get raised eyebrows from co-workers.
I’m a window 7 fanboy. The rest can get bent. XP would have been good if it didn’t blue screen so easily
Win10 LTSC-E is pretty great. Shame you can’t use it without a large scale government contract…
True. I’ve been enjoying Windows 10 now that I’ve really tuned it to my liking. It took too much work to get it there though so I don’t really fanboy for it.
I wish there was a legitimate way to get the LTSC version because it’s very close to my tuned one
Yeah, one of the main reasons I switched my gaming computer from Windows 10 to Linux was the fact that there’s so much less setup on Linux whenever you need to reinstall onto a new SSD or motherboard. (Also, that you dont need to reinstall for a new motherboard on Linux)
That, and the looming threat of Windows 11.
Who would’ve guessed
Have one?
There’s a lot out there if you know where to look.
Plenty in the windows support forums. Look for the guy who’s not an MS employee still there helping people. Don’t make too much fun, they’re the only ones who’re any good and sorting out issues…
Are they fanboys, though? I used to be one of those guys back when I used to help debug Windows permissions issues (it was always permissions issues) when getting .NET code to run on Windows 7. If anything, I think a lot of Windows people know that everything on Linux is far better supported and had more developer oversight, but ultimately these were the tools you had to use to use your language of choice.
If anything, it led to such a deep imposter syndrome that I ended up moving away from C#. While I could be just as productive in Windows as I was in Linux (even today), having to use “different” tools or run “special” commands to get something as basic as Ruby running on your OS constantly made you feel that you were running against the current.
Many of them are, yes.
Not all of them, but many.
Not sure how long ago you used C#, but these days the entire .NET Framework and C# compiler are open-source and cross-platform, and the latest versions of .NET have native ahead-of-time compilation (“Native AoT”) which lets you compile C# apps into a single executable file that can run on a system that doesn’t have the framework installed.
Visual Studio is still Windows-only, but VS Code is available everywhere and has good C# support, and JetBrains Rider is great too.
You can get PowerShell on Linux too. PowerShell is really nice once you get a feel for it. You pipe objects rather than strings, so there’s a lot you can do easily without needing to use grep/cut/sed to manipulate string streams.
I stopped around 2016, so it’s been a while, but it’s something I still really miss. I remember .NET Core being a thing, but didn’t see enough movement in places looking to transition away, so I jumped over to a different stack.
.NET Core was renamed to .NET in 2020 to signal that it’s the main framework now. It had mostly reached feature parity with the old .NET Framework by then. .NET Framework is still on version 4.6.x and isn’t receiving updates other than bug fixes, so a lot of people have migrated to .NET.
C# keeps evolving and there’s a bunch of useful language features that have been added even just in the last few years.
I’ll bite. Where’s my bridge? It better be cheap and run windows xp embedded
Sorry, it runs Winblow$ 95 🤭
We actually had a laser tracker controller that ran embedded xp32, headless, for one driver - netbeui. Pure insanity.