This is genuinely baffling. What was that teacher on.
reasonableness
Every time this gets reposted, everyone misses this first word.
This isn’t a maths question.
It’s asking the student to read the question and make an observation if it’s a reasonable question and answer.
And with the information provided it’s not.
I’m sorry, what? There is precisely nothing unreasonable about this question. It has a correct answer that can be found with basic logic
Yeah, most pizzerias sell many sizes. Both answers are valid.
In fact, i would argue making an assumption, in this case about size, without declaring it, is in fact less reasonable.
But it’s perfectly reasonable for Marty to order the bigger pizza because he is a greedy bastard.
I have an argument like that in my calculus 1 class in college, it was an optimization problem but the professor never said that the optimization variable was a constant, so you couldn’t differentiate it to zero and do the normal process that you typically do. So I just wrote that given that the perimeter wasn’t a constant the area to optimize goes to infinite Givin x -> inf; y -> 0, without loss of generality. He marked me zero we discussed about it and I said that I don’t care because I’m going to get a 10 next test if he didn’t fucked up the question. At the next exam I made some stupid error but he still gave 9/10 for the overall class because he came to accept that he wrote the question wrong and I was the only in the class actually caring and giving the class some dedication.
Take that to the principal, stupid teachers shouldn’t teach
… or have a bit of empathy and talk to the teacher like a human.
The principal is not necessarily any smarter than the teachers. Often it’s the opposite.
Reminds me of the time when I got send to the principle for saying “fuck you” during class. I was saying it to a classmate, but the teacher felt it was directed at her.
Anyway, the principle (herself a German teacher, this happend in Germany) gave me detention and wrote a letter to my parents, saying it was because I made a sexist remark towards a teacher.
My Dad wrote back explaining the difference between a sexist and an obscene remark. They canceled my detention and I never heard about it again.
Das ist echt krass xD Dein Papa hat vollkommen Recht
I was once called down to the principal’s office and told I would be expelled from my Catholic school because in spite of my catholic upbringing, I was an atheist (in the US, at a time when this was obviously illegal, given that the school accepted non catholic students of other religions). They called my dad and had me wait in the hall outside the principal’s office. For context, my dad’s an agnostic who doesn’t harbor any positive views towards the Catholic Church, but is a huge fan of educators and would always side with the teacher, no matter how unfair they were being.
My dad went straight in without acknowledging me and spoke with them inaudibly for about a minute, before the secretary came out and sent me back to class. I never heard anything about it from the school again and when my dad got home, he just said I didn’t need to worry about it. Decades later, he still won’t tell me exactly what happened, but I honestly think he might have forgotten and doesn’t want to admit it.
lol this is actually a golden answer and that is why we need better teachers
Ah, a teacher that does not comprehend the barometer
Two other right answers:
- Luis’ pizza is at least <whatever is the correct fraction> smaller than Marty’s (which is basically the same answer as the kid’s)
- Marty ate someone else’s pizza besides his own
And, for funsies:
- Luis’ pizza is 50% crust, so it doesn’t fully count as pizza
- Luis doesn’t like pizza and actually fed the dog while nobody was looking
- Marty is many years older than Luis, therefore he has eaten many years’ worth of pizza ahead of Luis
Well the question does assign ownership to the pizza, so Marty can eat his pizza then give it to Luis making it his pizza
correct fraction = 4/5, as in, Luis’ pizza is smaller than the 4/5 (80%) of Marty’s pizza.
This is completely unrelated but I cannot believe Calandra is a real world name.
The designers of the video game Path of Exile should’ve called their super rare item “Kalandra’s Barometer” instead of “Kalandra’s Mirror”.
Cancel that teachers staff pizza party in lieu of a payrise pass.
Ahh, fractions and word problems, the bane of my education (seriously, why do we bother with fractions when decimals are easier to compute and express?)
The higher the level of the course I was taking, the less test markers cared about the actual final answer. If you used the correct equations, simplifying the final answer to a faction rather than a decimal or leaving constants like pi and e in there was good enough for full marks.
Generally more accurate, too, because you’re not rounding the number but leaving it as the true value because 1/3 != 0.333333. It’s better to do it this way if there’s multiple steps, too, since you can gather or cancel out like terms if you leave them as variables instead of converting and rounding to some decimal.
Man, if you can’t understand fractions, you don’t actually understand the math, you’re just trained to use a formula.
I understand fractions, I simply doubt their utility.
Hate to break it to you but anything less than a whole is a fraction of a whole thing. Decimals, too, are bits of a whole.
Saying shit like that implies you don’t really get that they are the same thing.
For example, they allow you to write
1/3 + 1/3 + 1/3 = 1
Which is not possible in decimal
Tf you mean?? You can write it in a repeating decimal as
0.333....using ellipsis. https://wiki.froth.zone/wiki/Repeating_decimalSo you think
0.333.... + 0.333.... + 0.333.... = 1Is clearer and more concise than
1/3 + 1/3 + 1/3 = 1
Fractional representation is the method for rational numbers, particularly if they are part of an intermediate calculation.
Decimals are lossy, fractions aren’t.
No because you said this:
If you want to precisely write to infinity you write 1/3.
You can also precisely write to infinity if you write 0.333…
Decimals are lossy, fractions aren’t.
Decimals aren’t lossy, any fraction can be converted to decimal but it just takes longer to write.
The fraction 1/3 is a compact and unambiguous representation—it doesn’t rely on an ellipsis or an understanding of infinite series to be interpreted. It can easily be used in later calculations (you never see … notation in algebra). It is a useful notation.
As soon as you use decimals in computer and human calculations, they become lossy.
I’m not really sure what hill you are trying to die on. Fractions are useful, even if you don’t know how to use them.
well, no, it’s understood that a third is .333 to infinity, so .333+.333+.333 does equal 1 for any use not requiring precision to the point of it mattering that it was actually .33333335 when measured.
No. You wrote .333
If you want to precisely write to infinity you write 1/3.
actually .33333335
Holy fuck. Where did that 5 come from?
It came from it not being actually .333 to infinity when measured in the required engineering precision i was talking about. It’s literally a “common use” mathematical convention (you clearly are unaware of) that three times .333 is one. Solves a lot of problems due to a failure of the notation.
3 times 0.333 is 0.999 not 1.
Saying it equals 1 may be a common engineering convention, but it is mathematically incorrect.
There is no failure of notation if fractions are used, which is why I gave this example of usefulness.
People have already commented on fractions, there’s a lot of math that is way easier to keep accurate by leaving in fractional form as it goes.
For word problems, done correctly, the math is pointless if you can’t map it to more realistic scenarios. In terms of applying math to the real world, it’s supremely rare that the world just spits out the equation ready for you to solve, the ability to distill a scenario described by prose to a mathemetical solution is critical. Problem is when they are handled incorrectly and have ambiguous solutions or parameters, but dealing with kids’ homework, this is pretty rare, though it’s admittedly utterly infuriating when it comes up.
-
who says, 5/6 is easy to mentally understand than 0.83־.
-
is a reasonable way to start thinking about arithmetics, and basically to start doing simple math IMO.
-
Imo fractions are way more simple in many cases than decimal numbers. Saying 1/3rd is way more useful than hitting someone with the 0.33333333333333… Quick mental computations with fractions are also simpler in this case. Though this question (and questions like it) seem useless to me indeed.
I mean I understand, but in the case of .33333333333333… isnt it actually represented as “point three repeating”?
Possible, but at least in my experience most normal people know 1/3rd and understand what it means, but if I’d throw a “point three repeating” at them they’d probably get confused. Fractions are just a tool to communicate stuff more efficiently, good in some scenarios, confusing in others. It would be cool if we could teach everyone the “repeating” syntax as well because it’s another useful tool.
Or just say 33%?
In many cases that’s fine, I’ve done so regularly. But when you want to be precise without making it complicated you can just say the fraction as well. But in order to do that you need people to feel comfortable with it, therefore we need to teach kids this from a young age. I’m not saying we always need them, but they’re definitely very useful tools that you want at the ready when you need them. To make quick calculations in your head it’s often way simpler to use the fraction than the real number. And in cases like 1/3rd or 3/7ths it’s a way simpler, accurate and more efficient way to communicate the number than to name the rounded number.
At least where I am from we do get fractions in school.
Most people here will say “een derde” aka a 3rd, but it is mostly not used as a precise measurement or anything. Something like 3/7th is rarely used andd we would say 42,9%. In cases where the differences that create are relevant we would communicate it on paper or digitally where iirc we would still use percentages or decimals. Then again I am an accountant and not a technical analysist or anything. For me the difference between 42,9% and 42,85714 will mean a couple thousand at most.
Doesn’t imperial metrics also use frations from time to time? Metric doesn’t do that, but we have things like nanometers etc.
I’m also Dutch so I don’t have the answers about the imperial system haha
33.33333333333…%, you mean?
In 99/100 of the situations people do not care about you saying 33% instead of 1/3 or 33,3333333333% or 33,33…%
Shocking twist: boldly estimating 99/100 of situations is less accurate (more hyperbolic) than asserting 33% or ⅓ or whatever is accurate.
It’s not about accuracy especially not when TALKING to somebody. I work with numbers for a living and nobody is as obsessed with fractions than people on Reddit and Lemmy, it’s crazy and I have clients where the difference between 33,33% and 33% can be thousdands of euro’s.
Commendable for the kid to be thinking outside of the box, and a bit shitty of the teacher for not giving them maybe half a point (because it’s a correct answer, but not the correct/expected answer). The test maker is also to blame - they should’ve taken care to eliminate all ambiguity - it’s a math test after all.
The teachers response is incorrect. It is stated as fact that marty ate more pizza.
Oh, yes, you’re right! I read the question again.
P.S. And if really is a fake/made up test like some other folks claim in the comments, just look at how much of a discussion it throws us into.
The kid’s answer is the only correct answer. It’s not half right, or 5/6 or 4/6 right. It’s the only correct answer that fits the question. The teacher is a moron who has no business in a math classroom except as a remedial student.
Marty could’ve eaten someone else’s pizza besides his own, which would also make it a correct answer. The question didn’t say he ate 4/6 of his pizza and nothing else
I like it!
My wife has pointed out that there is indeed one other correct answer. One kids is bigger – OR, the other kid’s is smaller. TWO right answers.
Those are the same answer, one bigger makes the other smaller
Maybe it’s not smaller, just farther away?
Reminds me of the Homestar Runner one where Marzipan kept saying this the whole episode.
I see you noticed that too ;)
If you state that Marty ate more as part of the question, you cannot answer in any other way, because it denies mathematical logic here. You introduced a lie as part of the problem, and if I need to decide myself which part of the statement is a lie, I can pick whatever I want, let’s say, Marty didn’t ate 4/6, but 6/6. This teacher should be taken to the gulag.
Pretty sure its a joke and not a real exam.
“Reasonableness” as the heading implies that they’ve been working on whether a word problem makes any sense at all. It’s, perhaps ironically, an attempt to help them build critical thinking skills. Then, elementary school teachers are not all brilliant minds themselves, and even the ones who are incredibly gifted educators are overworked, and their schools are generally underfunded. You get a cheap resource, maybe even a free one, or one your former mentor threw together late one night three years ago, and you can end up with a sloppy question. If you yourself are having a bad moment, or are not particularly talented, or the kid is a known shitass, then yeah, you could overreact and respond like this.
Having just sat with my kid through a year of 5th grade math homework, it is completely plausible that this is a real quiz and a real response. Some of the question writing even in the professionally made materials is just not good, partly because it presumes a laser focus on a single “instructional variable,” despite mandates to teach holistically.
The title being “Reasonableness” makes it pretty obvious that the kids answer is the correct one thats being asked for. Could be that the teacher just found the question somewhere without the answer but it seems more plausible to me that its a joke.
You miss the understanding that the kids would have been coached everyday for at least a week to look for the fractions and compare them. And not be overly concerned with anything else. The kids aren’t stupid, they know that they have spent the week comparing fractions and that’s what the test/quiz would cover. I would bet very long money that the majority of the students got the correct answer and those that didn’t, simply chose the wrong answer. Still, you do get an oddball answer on occasion. Because young kids are cool like that sometimes. It’s a minor thing to correct as a teacher.
As an adult, you are reading far too much into the question because you want to be angry.
That’s not what it is, no.
Teachers make mistakes, like any human being, and a good teacher can deal with the fact that they made a mistake and that a student found said mistake.
A teacher who insists on being right over being correct is a bad teacher, because a teacher is supposed to teach a child understanding and knowledge, not blind obedience above anything else.
That’s how you end up with a population who agree with the leader even if he tells them the sky is green.
Again, as an adult looking to find something to be outraged at, you are far overthinking the problem. You assume those kids don’t understand what that week’s math lessons were about. And therefore what any quiz/test would be about at the end of the week. All of them would have been coached all week long on what to look for in that quiz/test.
If the teacher was so wrong, explain to me how a majority of the students would have understood that question and been able to figure out the correct answer and provided the correct format? Getting one odd answer on one test/quiz in a room of perhaps 20 students is not indicative of a poorly written question or if a teacher is unwilling to admit they were wrong. Odd answers are just generally an isolated issue, unless this is a repeated problem for this student, which would be indicative of a deeper learning issues. Which is something we don’t know or can’t know in this case.
Your premise would hold value if you knew every student in the classroom got the question wrong or provided the same answer that is shown. But you have no idea if that’s the case.
There are other things in this world that deserve to be outraged about. This particular thing ain’t one of them.
If the teacher was so wrong, explain to me how a majority of the students would have understood that question and been able to figure out the correct answer and provided the correct format?
But did they? How do you know? Have you seen the other students’ assignments?
Most likely, this specific task wasn’t actually a homework task at all but created just for this meme.
But teachers like this exist, and I stand by that that these teachers are wrong. Understanding and actually thinking about a problem are much more important skills than to obey blindly and follow pre-set directions without even reading what the question actually says.
I’d say, a student that answers the question as expected is failing in regards to reading comprehension.
And from my experience, if a question is worded as wrongly as the one in the meme, then half the class will have it wrong and there will be a group of parents at the next parent-teacher conference complaining about it.
That’s how you end up with a population who agree with the leader even if he tells them the sky is green.
Or you are in Japan, maybe even North Korea.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue–green_distinction_in_language
You introduced a lie as part of the problem
There is no lie or contradiction in the problem, what are you smoking? The kid’s answer is exactly correct.
They’re not on about the kids answer. They’re talking about the teacher saying Luis ate more. How? It literally says in the question Marty ate more.
what does this even teach the kid about statements by authority? that it’s all lies and trust nobody?
Marty ate more than Luis, that was she lie, in the problem not the answer. That’s if the teacher is saying the answer isn’t right.
The teacher didn’t write OR understand the question. It’s about reasonableness - that is, not just mindlessly solving math. The solution is that Marty’s pizza was bigger, so 4/6 of that was more than 5/6 of Luis’, smaller pizza.
There is no lie. The teached is just dumb. Or more likely overworked, but wrong nontheless.
This is not that level of reasoning. This is basically 4 < 5 if they’re both over 6. This is introducing fractions… It’s not that deep.
You’re arguing with the teacher.
Yeah, this is answered exactly correctly, and also demonstrates that the child has a strong grasp of how fractions work. 3/4 of 2 is greater than 4/4 of 1, even though 4/4 is a larger fraction than 3/4.
Yeah, that was my point. If everything the question says is true, the only way 4/6 is more amount pizza than 5/6, is that the first one is a bigger pizza. The kid not only understood the logic with fractions and the problem statement, but came up with a really good answer. You can even calculate how much bigger the pizza is.
Teachers accepting only “the right answer” without pondering that kind of thinking, are really just damaging kids. Straight to the gulag.
The statement and the question do not make any kind of sense. Would make more sense to ask who ate more pizza when one ate 2/3 and another one ate 3/4 of an equally sized pizza.
⅔x > ¾y when x > 1⅛y. The question helps you parse word problems.
The statement and question make perfect sense. The kid has the only “reasonable” answer.
This brings back memories of when I realized that I was smarter than most of my teachers.
Curriculum and unappetizing methods of teaching are the problems.
This kid has the right to question, to speak out what’s really logical, and is likely to be more street-wise.
Some real “steel is heavier than feathers” energy coming off this teacher.
