How to get politicians to change views:
Plastic causes ed and shrinkage
Unfortunately they’ll just claim not praying to god enough and the existence of trans people causes ED and shrinkage…
Thats crazy we all know trans people do the opposite for that lot.
They’ll blame woman for being too slutty and fucking everyone BUT THEM.
Being an old man this really gets me. I love the internet and the way computers today but there is a whole lot that worked fine before plastics were so common. Almost nothing in the grocery store had plastic and everything was pretty much as convenient as nowadays. Sure you had to pay a deposit on the glass bottles but you got it back when you returned them.
If I had to choose glass or plastic, I am always choosing glass. Glass is such a good material. It is infinitely recyclable, the bottles can be reused for several years, and if they are buried they don’t release microplastics.
I jump for situations where the glass is taken back for wash and reuse. Its the most sensible thing. I swear I had heard about restaurants doing this with containers but I never actually encountered one. So they had perm togo containers they took back and washed.
That’s what we have here in Czechia, it is called Rekrabička.
It depends on which aspects of the environmental impact you’re looking at, as melting glass to recycle it can be much more damaging than landfilling several plastic bottles if the glass furnace is heated by fossil fuels. If glass bottles are washed and reused, they’re much better than plastic, but that’s rarely what happens.
The cleaning was common back then. Every store took back the tall glass bottles of soda and in modern times oberweiss brought that back with milk. The glass melting is nice just as a final option really.
That’s reuse, not recycling. Glass is much more suitable for reuse than plastics as it’s longer-lasting and can withstand temperatures hot enough and cleaning agents strong enough to ensure it’s food-safe after being collected, but you need quite a bit of infrastructure to get the bottles back to the company whose products they’re for. At least for the parts of a bottle’s life that the manufacturer’s responsible for, it can be much cheaper to make fresh plastic, and if they can externalise the environmental cost of disposing of a plastic bottle (i.e. blame the consumer), it can look better for their carbon footprint etc., too.
yeah I was not limiting my comment to recycling just about how we don’t really need to be using plastic everywhere and how things were pretty fine in the 70’s where you only saw plastic in a few use cases.
Gas is used to heat up glass furnaces most of the time. But it is possible to use elctricity aswell, which is more and more sources from either solar or nuclear.
Not saying it is greener than plastic when it comes to electricity and shipping.
That’s still the way it works in Denmark, but with plastic bottles too. Something like 98% of all bottles are recycled.
Recycling rates are low, but I wouldn’t quite call it a myth. There’s a lot of materials that get lumped together as ‘plastic’, that each have to be handled differently.
Some are relatively non-toxic and easily recycled. More can be, but aren’t profitable without incentives. Some are very toxic, and recycling those are difficult. Then there’s a lot of rarer types that make it hard to collect and sort. There’s also mixed materials, where it’s hard to separate the plastic to recycle.
Generally everyone should be minimizing plastics, but check how they’re handled locally so you know what’s recylable.
It seems there’s been a flip. The myth is now that plastic is not recycled and it’s all been a lie which is the actual lie.
The information around what types of plastics are easily recycled has never been a secret.
There is this weird mindset where people, often children are given a simplified explanation of things and then feel they were lied to when they find out their is nuance.
The entire world of information works this way. If the nuance was included from the start no one would learn anything because they would be bogged down in details. Every topic is a Wikipedia like rabbit hole with no bottom. It’s what we have specialization in society.
The issues with plastic are not in its recycling. It’s that is breaks down into what are essentially forever chemicals. This is the dilemma.
Producing less plastic because it’s not recyclable is bad messaging.
Producing less plastic because it creates a substance that will last for eons is the problem. We’ve known about this property for decades but the repercussions of it have become more pronounced.
We need to stop making more plastic and work out how to chemically dissessemble the plastics already created without creating a worse output.
In some places there’s really no recycling. For example, islands where recycling would mean shipping plastics to the mainland. They just burn it instead - if you’re lucky, for producing heating or electricity.
Sure but there is danger is telling people to not bother recycling. Even a location as you described since it could become possible in the future and it’s actually better for it to be shipped off than buried. Keeping plastic out of the environment is not a waste of fuel.
The focus should be a return to glass bottles that are reused. This was still a thing into the 90’s in my area.
Yes, recycling is always better.
Treating waste water? Water treatment plants cost so much that they will never compete with dumping raw sewage into the river!
Which is why my local water treatment plant built a brand new pipe so they can dump directly into the river rather than the local nature reserve.
I’m so glad we privatised that…
Honestly, the whole concept of “recycling” plastic feels more like a PR strategy than an environmental solution. If it were genuinely effective, we’d see investment, innovation, and accountability—like we do with metals. Instead, we’re handed the guilt while corporations keep pumping out garbage.
Much like the concept of a carbon footprint, it exists solely to make consumers think they can make an individual difference so they won’t push for regulations
Yeah I especially love that one everytime I fly. I get to choose the environmentally friendly option with lower carbon footprint for more money. Who the fuck they think they are kidding? We are all in the same plane burning fuel at 10000 m.
Honestly if it was up to me I’d just ban plastic flat out unless you got some kind of “this is actually really important and NEEDS to be made of plastic” cert
There are tons of single-use plastic medical supplies - syringes, wrappers, etc.
Would you say that those things are actually really important and NEED to be made of plastic? I wonder if Aeri would account for that possibility
I’m not the ultimate authority on all things, but I’d question if these things need to be made of plastic.
Syringes are made out of things like Borosilicate glass, Stainless steel, autoclaves and cases exist.
It would also be way less big a deal if we just didn’t have as much plastic in general.
It would be a lot more costly to make syringes out of glass/steel for single-use types.
Counterpoint, how much is cancer treatment for (research sounds, papers rustling)… Seven thousand people†?
Multiply that by… some studies show costs of cancer treatment as high as $173,831 annually. 1,216,817,000? Would it cost more than 1.2 billion dollars a year to stop making everything out of plastic? This is just like, napkin ass math I’m not pretending to be a huge know it all or anything by the way. Personally I think that yes, we should stop making things out of poison, even if it costs more money.
†A recent study estimated that PFAS contamination in drinking water contributes to more than 6,800 cancer cases each year in the United States.
I don’t disagree with you at all, but I just don’t see a way for it to happen in the current corpo-controlled climate.
there have been several articles exposing plastic recycling as green washing. unfortunately they never make it to mainstream media
i saw a chart somewhere showing less than 1% of plastic in use today is recycled but I can’t find it now
unfortunately they never make it to mainstream media
Sounds like this “mainstream media” is not doing its job. This might have some kinds of implications for the current state of affairs in the USA. Can’t put my finger on exactly what though.
Sad that NPR is not considered “mainstream” these days. Maybe Joe Rogan will post something to Facebook about it?
Was it ever? It seems substantially more popular now than it used to be 20 years ago, with them getting in on the ground floor of the podcast game and all.
NPR is definitely mainstream
I think the word you’re looking for is “corporate” or “for-profit”. Thats what they’re not.
fwiw I agree, but it doesn’t appear to be considered mainstream by the guy I was replying to.
ha. i was wrong. NPR has 44 million weekly listeners. that probably qualifies as mainstream media.
I thought npr had 10 times fewer listeners than that. (fyi NPR is the only radioi listen to)
https://blog.marketenginuity.com/by-the-numbers-who-is-actually-listening-to-public-radio
I thought npr had 10 times fewer listeners
If you want to be depressed, Joe Rogan has 10 times that for single episodes.
Yes Joe Rorgan is mainstream. And for-profit trash.
The good news is that global warming (I prefer to call it Anthropogenic Runaway Global Heating because of the acronym) is going to completely fuck us all anyway, to the extent that plastic in the environment isn’t going to matter by comparison. At least oil turned into plastic and buried isn’t oil turned into CO2.
The two problems have a decent amount of overlap though. For example, I recently learned that car tyres are a huge contributor to microplastic pollution. This means that improving public transport infrastructure will reduce CO2 emissions and microplastic pollution.
But we still have microplastics in our brains, which does warrant some concern I think.
Sadly that is the problem. YOU did not think, the microplastics in your brain did.
Thats just the microplastics talking, go back to sleep.
Hey, maybe all the plastic will lead to such significant fertility issues, populations will crater, and ARGH won’t even matter anymore!
If only some government somewhere on Earth had sponsored research on this. We could have known.
Or we did and no one cared.
Remember, if one depends on the media for information, you only get information dumb people can understand.
Its basically impossible to avoid too. Anything you buy comes packaged in plastic for the most part.
Dont forget the goal of disrupting actual leftist movements into confusion
And this is how capitalism eats itself. Nothing can be done without a market incentive, including not suffocating our planet to death.
Not to absolve capitalism, but it’s pretty easy to add market incentives to at least slightly address climate change. The concept of “externalities” has been around for a while, where something has a net social impact outside of its sale. It’s normally solved with taxes and levies.
The real issue seems to be nobody havong the appetite to even attempt the most basic solutions to the problem, mainly thanks to lobbying.
“Slightly” addressing climate change doesn’t cut it. That’s like slightly addressing a raging fire. Incrementalism is climate denial.
I definitely get your point. I think it was pretty lousy wording from me to start with, and I should have said that those are pretty big levers to impact climate change rather than underplaying them as “slightly adressing”.
I don’t think any country has done enough, but countries that have put measures in place climate change are miles ahead of those that haven’t. Compare New Zealand, or Sweden, to the USA.
To be clear as well, I’m not advocating incrementalism, I’m advocating that we do everything to adress climate change, and we’re specifically talking about just one thing. Saying we shouldn’t bother using the levers we have because they don’t solve the whole problem is like saying you’re not going to call the fire brigade because they won’t get there in time to save the whole house.
It ain’t capitalism, it’s the stupid fucking consumers. If a product, already plastic wrapped 3 times before they touch it, has a tiny hole, “Oh no, that one has a hole. I want another one.” Hell, anything imperfect gets tossed. My dumpster at work is packed full of plastic because assholes won’t take anything even slightly unperfect.
It’s the idiots buying single, shrink wrapped potatoes. It’s the idiots who think a Keurig cup is an ecological disaster, while every other drink they buy wastes 4-5x as much. How about the idiots buying kitchen containers while they toss the, often better, container their food came in?
When I was young, it was the idiot hippies whining about paper bags, like we were chopping down old-growth forests instead of making them from lumber waste (which is sustainable). Congrats assholes, you won, now we’re buried in plastic bags and choking turtles to death.
Until people stop buying so much new shit, reject plastic containers (as much as feasible) and start paying a premium for biodegradable packaging, we’re sunk. Or, better yet, we could force less waste via legislation.
Or, better yet, we could force less waste via legislation
it’s amazing you recognise the better solution is legislation yet endlessly rant for consumers (dupped by the industry in this very post) to fix the problem
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I just wanted to buy some kiwis at the store yesterday. The only option they had was 4 packs inside of a plastic shell container. They have their own natural container- fucking skin. What the fuck?
Japan can be really weird about this as well. They have fish markets with fish sitting in the open on ice, where they sometimes put a label directly on the fish. And then you sometimes see stores with single bananas in a plastic bag
Yeah, Japan is definitely a weird one. For being so conscious about waste processing (they meticulously separate their trash and recyclables), they really don’t seem to care about just how many single use plastics they consume, at least on a societal level.
It is capitalism tho. Yes, us dummies enable it, but it is capitalism that currently gives the power to misinform the public and suppress the spread of truth/accurate research to a few rich humans.
I also want those Karens to be ok buying a piece of fruit that isnt in 7 layers of plastic, but to pretend that most of the environmental diaster we face isnt caused by corprate need for profit at any cost is wild.
Well, i think it’s definitely the “big evil corpos” fault. But that doesn’t make your rant wrong either. Just, consumers never want to be told they are part of the problem. Corpos are shit and all but if consumers wouldn’t buy shit while there is an alternative, they wouldn’t continue making it. Advertising is a big problem there as well, and people, consciously or not, being influenced at all times…
I wonder how much the oil industry subsidies are responsible for making recycled plastic more expensive than the new one…
The biggest issue seems to be around a lake of thinking. Recycling used plastics into more plastic is certainly energetically infeasible, and letting plastics escape to contaminate the environment is also unacceptable. However plastic can be recycled, or perhaps reused, into other things, notably as a partial replacement for aggregate in concrete. This process is low energy, doesn’t require sorting the plastic, and actually enhances the thermal and noise insulation properties of the concrete, whilst also reducing it’s overall weight. There are undoubtedly other things a stable, non-biodegradable, waterproof and hardwearing substance could be used for given some though.
Putting it in concrete just delays the inevitable.
It does, but it will also bind a lot of the micro plastic pieces into the concrete matrix, which, I think (and, again, as I said, I haven’t actually gone looking for any research on this), would keep them from entering the environment. If the concrete is then recycled, typically by crushing and using as aggregate, it would further trap the particles. It’s not a perfect solution, but I don’t think there is a perfect solution to plastics in general, we just have to find less harmful alternatives.
Best solution imo is burning it with a filter after use. Gasification will happen anyway but this way at least it doesn’t damage ecosystems.
Probably designed by a nuclear engineer
The more I see plastic being integrated into construction, the more I worry we’re just postponing the inevitable. Concrete, stone and steel and basically reusable or recyclable and low impact on the environment when dumped. Plastic on the other hand slowly degrades into microplastics and seeps into waterways. Sometimes we forget that buildings don’t last forever.
That’s a fair concern, but, as you say, concrete is recyclable, and I would expect (though I admit I haven’t looked for studies) that it still would be when it has some amount of plastic aggregate. If the plastic breaks down in the concrete, the microplastics should be trapped, and will be reincorporated when the concrete is reused.
Nothing is going to be a perfect solution to plastic, we need to find alternatives to its use, but in the interim it seems sensible to find effective ways to reuse it rather than just dumping it and hoping for the best.
Maybe the best solution was to trap it in our bodies all along! /jk
Right now it looks like paper and metal recycling is still good as far as I can read in two minutes. If someone has a correction let me know.
Yup! Those things are easy (comparatively) to recycle because they’re single material items, so the process is:
- clean
- break down / melt
- rebuild
“Plastic” is thought of as a single material, but even vegetable packaging will be made of around 5-10 different polymers, so for it to be valuable, you need to break it down back to those original polymers.
It’s not a issue with recycling as a whole, its specific to plastic as a material.
That’s just not true. I make flexible packaging and we use thousands of pounds of post industrial resin (made from scrap material produced in house) and post consumer resin (made from used packaging.) They’re all coextruded; frequently made up of 10+ different types of polyethylenes, polyamides, and ethylene-vinyl alcohol.
I don’t think “not true” is fair- I have a soure if you’d like to hear it from someone more authorative than some random internet person (unfortunately I think it might be behind a paywall)[0]
Either way, that’s cool! I’m surprised you can build flexible packaging from that, but I’d be really, really surprised if you can use something that crude to fit the other niches of plastic like building technology, clothing, etc.
[0] https://www.economist.com/podcasts/2025/04/23/are-microplastics-harming-your-health
Yeah same and I hate when people just say well might as “well not recycle at all then” :/ that kind of defeatism doesn’t help either
That is the point at which you remind them they are focusing on the worst R and remind them of the other two which are much more ppwerful
Maybe i should recommend DDD instead of RRR 🤫 lotta assholes running around still doubling down on dooming everybody
They also both have the advantage of being things that will naturally degrade over time if left outside instead of just sticking around forever
Correct. Paper (PS: or at least brown cardboard), glass and alu will always be great candidates for recycling.
I was under the impression that the chemicals involved in recycling paper products, combined with the fact that virgin paper is almost entirely sourced from managed, quick-growing tree farms, make paper recycling also undesirable?
Have heard similar things. And it’s also true that timber farming is a (very marginal) form of carbon drawdown, assuming the wood products are not burned. But then in theory recycling could allow some of that land to return to nature, which better in all ways. It’s a systems problem.
The chemical issue is presumably bleaching for white paper. But thick brown cardboard is basically just degraded wood fiber so that at least must be pretty efficient to downcycle into toilet paper.
Update: there’s also another chemical issue in de-inking, maybe that’s what you were referring to. Personally I don’t bother recycling my tiny amounts of paper waste, for these reasons. Thick cardboard must be a win though.
Aluminum is the poster child for recycling, really. It takes more energy to extract it from the ore than it is to recycle it.
Former aluminum process engineer: This^
