Oh cool modern day Iran-Contra is gonna happen but with more genocide
Fuck Israel. We shouldn’t be supporting them at all.
They would fold under even the littlest bit of BDS, but that’s not going to happen because the US sees themselves in Israel.
Thus why nearly every state has made it illegal for any company that works with the government to be BDS-positive.
How about: No arms deals with any entity that indiscriminately murders innocent people, women, and children?
What? Think about the BlackRock’s and Vanguard’s!
Shit no deals with Boeing, Northrup Grumman, etc.
Oh well, I’m certain they won’t bribe Congress to force their deals through… /s
So practically every major power in the world?
yes
Ain’t that illegal?
Genocide is illegal (I think, it’s kinda blurry for decades now). Don’t see those people concerned about it. I don’t think these people care about law. They bend it to their will, like they do with their tax-paying citizenry who vote and pay for them.
Genocide is illegal (I think, it’s kinda blurry for decades now). Don’t see those people concerned about it. I don’t think these people care about law. They bend it to their will, like they do with their tax-paying citizenry who vote and pay for them.
I’m not voting for this man a second time. No more harm reduction. I’m not degrading myself by voting for a genocide enabler.
You getting downvoted for refusing to vote for Biden for a very valid reason is proof of how broken our two-party system is. This is why every state needs to pass ranked-choice voting. Maine did it and proved it could be done, and now they get to vote for who they actually /want/ without having their vote “spoiled”.
Everyone in the US should be working to get ranked-choice voting in their state.
Whoever you vote for will support Israel. US ally and all.
Then I simply will not vote.
Throwing trans, gays, women, poor people, minorities etc. under the bus because Biden who has called for a ceasefire in Gaza isn’t doing enough.
Not voting because the democrat isn’t left enough for you is an extremely privileged outlook to have.
Biden has not called for a ceasefire. He has called for a humanitarian pause until they can get hostages and foreign nationals out, so they can resume bombing. I’ll continue using my vote as my voice. You are free to do whatever you want.
Wait, that’s literally a cease fire though? He’s not calling for a peace agreement or truce. He’s calling for a temporary cessation of hostilities.
This exact attitude is how we got where we are. Don’t vote for policies you don’t believe in. There are other candidates, win or lose, vote for one that represents you.
This isn’t how we got here. The people that don’t vote tend to be left leaning. Republicans do vote, in mass. I fail to see how thinking not voting/voting third party is how we got here.
That’ll show 'em.
Dear young people, “Don’t Vote” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0e9guhV35o
And then nobody becomes president.
Rhrhrheheh
Do whatever you want. You’re a person behind a screen as am I. You aren’t going to change my mind on this. I’ve heard it for the past 8 years with Clinton then Biden. I cannot vote for people who support a modern day holocaust
Wfegegege
Why stop at here? They also want to let Russia destroy Ukraine. Both parties are going to support a genocide. Hell isn’t Republican supporting both?
vote for one genocides or two. wonderful.
Just leave the president box blank then. Or find an independent who aligns with your values. Make your voice heard.
I don’t disagree. Will continue to vote locally, even nationally if the candidates align with my values and will keep voting for third parties. I just cannot justify a lesser evil to myself anymore.
Man quit it with the “if you don’t vote for the guy I want you’re actually voting for the other guy”. I’m not voting for anyone. You want to secure my vote? Earn it. Don’t just be slightly less monstrous than the other guy
Who do you vote? The murderer or the rapist?
Neither. You don’t vote for either. That is the answer.
Then you spend 4 years roasting the imbeciles who installed the murderer/rapist as their leader.
There’s that self righteous nonsense I mentioned above. Not voting =/= no culpability for the results.
That’s right, All Israeli citizens are culpable for the bombing Gazan civilians. Therefore they are all valid targets to stop genocide.
Jejejeejs
I told you my beliefs and I own it. You told me yours and you own it. Is this supposed to be some next level analysis, that I disagree with you? That’s usually how conversations work.
Jejdjdjd
Wee! We get full harm because you only want perfection at all times with no effort at all! Woohoo!
My effort is contributing to my community and the less fortunate. You think me bubbling in a check mark for someone who is giving the thumbs up for an ethnic cleansing and genocide is putting in work? Go outside.
Dear young people, “Don’t Vote” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0e9guhV35o
Spoiler alert: This would have most likely happened regardless of the D or R next to the president’s name on the ballot.
There’s two reasons I could see the US supporting Israel regardless of who’s in charge: the logical one because it has historical precedent is that the US wants Israel as a buffer for Russia due to it’s strategic location in the Middle-East, and the other reason is more conspiracy theory but I wouldn’t be surprised if the US can somehow get access to Palestine’s oil if Israel beats the shit out of the Hamas.
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That is your decision and I have nothing against it.
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I will stay dumb and ignorant if it means sticking to my morals of being anti-genocide. Thanks.
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Not saying I am, but voting for someone who enables a genocide goes against my values. If by childish you mean choosing what I want to do with my vote, then sure.
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Great, I’m telling you that it goes against my morals. You can effectively vote for whoever you want and I can effectively not vote for either. Are you going to tell me voting third party is a vote for Trump too?
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Yay harm increases! Apathy means innocence.
How is Biden a warmonger?
He really does think this is his holy mission to bring about the yadda yadda biblical prophecy huh?
Which is super weird because he’s catholic and we don’t really, uh, follow the book of revelations. That weird ass prophecy is a Baptist thing
I get why - congress is increasingly useless - but there’s obvious accountability problems there.
Accountability problems with funneling infinite weapons to an Apartheid settler state? No way, the US has a high degree of integrity about such things
Yeah, name 50 times we’ve ever done that specific crime!
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Spineless, pathetic cowardice. I mean we already knew that about Democrats but this just indicts the entire administration as such. Israel makes no apologies for their slaughter, they just don’t give a shit, but this means that Genocide Joe and Co. KNOW this is wrong and they’ll still bend over backwards just to kill a foreigner.
Zero attempts at “harm reduction” pfff, they’re actively taking steps to make the harm (literal bombing of children) worse. I live in a swing state, so when I throw my vote away I’ll get to feel proud knowing it was worth even more. Glory to the martyrs and may “Israel” and her American dog be annihilated.
Genocide Joe knows how evil it is, and wants to continue arming the zionist entity. Monstrous bastard.
Genocide Joe feeling the heat in the polls.
Genocidin’ Biden.
Would be great if he said that about funding the American government.
I can’t believe how many shitlibs there are in here, using this opportunity to guilt people with an actual conscience into voting for this piece of shit as if he has some sort of moral high ground.
What is the lesser evil when both the DNC and the GOP work directly for the exact same military industrial complex?
The real villain here is the system that makes any party outside of the two party system completely irrelevant: first-past-the-post.
We have two Republican parties. One of them just so happens to pretend better at being inclusive…but they secretly also wish that the poor could be burned to fuel their mega-yachts.
The one that isn’t taking away trans rights, making abortion illegal, and saying the last election was stolen, seems like the lesser evil actually. I can agree that I think our parties would be slightly better if first past the post was changed to allow for multiple parties, but i think it’s ridiculous to say both parties are currently the same. Edit: As I responded to thecrotch, I disagree with the assertion that the Dem party is evil. Flawed? sure, our 2 party system will only allow for flawed parties, but to say their evil is downright showing ignorance of US politics or disinformation given the examples that I gave.
Not to people overseas. There’s no difference between being indiscriminately murdered by a Republican or a Democrat to the people dying.
Democrats aren’t getting people killed, Republicans are by not allowing women to get medically necessary abortions. To people over seas, seeinh one group deny the existence of covid, make abortions illegal, and passing laws restricting lgbt+ peoples rights is obviously the evil one.
Democrats aren’t getting people killed
What do you think starting wars in the middle east does? Or do you not consider those people to be human.
They don’t have to be the same to both suck. The lesser evil is, by definition, evil.
But less evil.
Also by definition.
Who the fuck wants more evil?
Fine, vote your conscience. I was replying to a guy who said Democrats aren’t evil. That guy is wrong. Less evil doesn’t mean not evil.
And your argument is that someone already called them evil.
My argument is that they are evil. I made that argument to someone who said that they are not evil. Do you have a point?
Restating the conclusion is not what constitutes an argument.
You’re right, what I should have also added to my post was that, I disagree with the assertion that the Dem party is evil. Flawed? sure, our 2 party system will only allow for flawed parties, but to say their evil is downright showing ignorance or disinformation for the examples that I gave.
Democrats voted for Afghanistan, Iraq, the Patriot act, and countless other evil legislation. They’re absolutely evil. So they’re less evil than the Republicans, so what? Should I give them a cookie?
You’re like 20 years behind, catch up. Give them a cookie? Give them your vote. The alternative is republicans who RIGHT NOW, IN THIS YEAR are attempting to restrict abortions, deny the elections, restrict lgbt+ rights. Democrats are fighting against that. But yeah you’re right maybe split you’re vote because both sides “are the same”.
I didn’t say they’re the same. They don’t have to be the same to both suck. Fuck you for telling me how to vote. You got a lot of nerve.
If they’re both equally evil internationally and mostly equally evil domestically, am I allowed to vote for who is less likely to remove more human rights from women and trans people?
I would never tell anyone that they should vote, I understand people’s reasons for not doing it. Selfishly, I’m going to give myself the best chance of having access to life saving health care until I’m no longer of child bearing age.
In terms of federal representatives, that’s rather like a poor white German supporting the Strassers.
If Hitler had actually held an election and the only options were him or a Strasser party, I don’t think it would be immoral to vote for the Strassers. But I also don’t think it would be a moral obligation if you had no reason to believe they would stop the Holocaust.
A vote for Hindenburg was indeed a vote for Hitler, so I think the moral is that caping for a lesser evil instead of trying to build good (and those two things are normally opposed) is not a constructive behavior. I couldn’t give less of a shit who you personally vote for, that’s the consumer-lifestyle version of political engagement. I do care somewhat what you advocate for, because promoting the lesser evil is still promoting evil over good (using the overly moralistic phrasing of the adage).
Withholding support from Nazis (on any substantial level) is plainly the better option if you want to not need to keep choosing between two Nazis.
The 1932 election had a communist option, it’s unlikely that there will be one on my ballot.
We’re not going to overthrow fascism in America at the voting booth. I’m not trying to convince anyone to vote for Biden, that’s his job and he’s not doing it very well. I’m also not going to shame anyone for doing something easy like voting in the hopes that it makes them a tiny bit safer.
I would shame someone if they thought that voting democrat is a step towards bringing about positive change or parroted some bullshit about how we can get more concessions from Democrats than Republicans. If voting is the extent of your political engagement, you aren’t opposing fascism.
A vote for Hindenburg was indeed a vote for Hitler
How so? Hindenburg was Hitler’s biggest political adversary and refused to pronounce Hitler chancellor until 2 consecutive elections failed.
Of course! I’m just standing up to speak my mind. We all are allowed to vote exactly as we see fit. I live in MA where I have the opportunity to vote with my conscience, but in a place like AL, SC, or KY, my strategy wouldn’t be helpful to those groups of people.
The two party system makes democracy in the US an absolute sham.
My thing is, why are some people here just finally throwing away their votes?
Like I knew from a very young age that this country doesn’t care and will enthusiastically turn it’s back on you if your hardship is an inconvenience to capital in any way, look how they treat the ndns.
And if anything there is money to be made off our suffering.
This is why colonization anywhere is colonization everywhere. From the river to the fucking sea, Palestine WILL BE FREE
i can’t see any of them, which means a lot of them must have been banned already from hexbear lol lmao
8 out of a total of 165 comments remain.
Went and checked the lemmy.ml version of the thread, and they sure weren’t lying about the shitlibs.
Glory to the moderators
Maybe I should switch to hexbear. I feel like I’m on 2016 Twitter, arguing with Neera Tanden’s astroturfing PPI team and they’re trying to brainwash other leftists to think that Single Payer is somehow bad.
please switch, your braincells will grow back, and we have silly stickers to plaster everywhere
This is nonsense. MAGA is a fascist movement. Don’t let both being neo-liberal blind you.
Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.
To me, it sounds a whole lot like both Biden AND Trump can be considered fascists….especially with this idea of secret military aid to Israel that I’m reacting to here.
Looking at it from an economic definition perspective though Biden represents the financial bourgeoisie and Trump represents more industrial bourgeoisie
I’d actually argue that Trump comes from the real estate bourgeoisie but I agree on the Biden characterization. Biden never saw an MBNA donor contribution that he didn’t love (like in 2008 when he sold all future generations out for a $250,000 payout from MBNA).
I just don’t see how real estate wealth translates to industry. In general, many of Trump’s areas don’t fully align with the Republican establishment who, in my observation, generally are from real estate, energy, and industry as you mentioned.
Thinking about it more, it seems like real estate has a lot of overlap in both parties.
Trump obviously comes from real estate, but his current money-making on a direct level is decidedly media-driven. The question is who gives him money and who benefits from his policy, and I think the answer is that he has a relatively larger amount of support from the petite bourgeois.
Yeah that’s true. They found a cash cow in him, though I’d still consider him an outsider (especially after his political capital has been used up).
High fixed capital
Neoliberalism is exactly the economic policies of fascism. Just because they have “civility” aesthetics doesn’t change that
This is your feeling, no fact.
It is a fact that the economic policies of Nazi Germany were mass privatization and public-private partnerships, both of which are the hallmarks of neoliberal policy. Your denial of this is factless. Not that it matters to you, because you don’t care about facts. You’re just an empty headed smuglord with Facts and Logic™ aesthetics
And yet the United States continues to slide into fascism despite having elected Biden. What horrific Trump era policies did the Democrats even bother to repeal after they won in 2020 and held both the senate and the house?
They are still funding the construction of border wall segments. They never repealed the Republican tax cuts. They have done nothing about the concentration camps on the southern border for fuck’s sake. They never codified Roe v. Wade, we literally lost the right to abortions while Biden was in office. They could have stacked the supreme court but they didn’t.
The Democrats and the Republicans form an obfuscated one party system in the US. Republican leadership aggressively ramps up the oppression of marginalized people, then Democratic leadership does nothing to restore our rights nor proactively prevent the same thing from happening again. Instead they just use their time in office to suck all of the energy out of people’s movements that could actually effect change.
And much more importantly than all of that, Republicans and Democrats are virtually identically evil when it comes to foreign policy. When the US is dropping bombs on you and destroying your country, you’ll tend not to care whether it was a Red MAGA or Blue MAGA administration pulling the trigger.
In some specific cases it might be worthwhile to vote for Democrats in local elections where there exists much more leeway for politicians to stray from the party line, but voting for them in national elections is just lending your voice to legitimizing their bullshit good cop/bad cop routine they play with the Republicans.
Hear hear!!! My sentiments exactly! Thanks for putting it into words better than I could have.
Yes, that is a feature of democratic systems. Parties want to get voted in. So they bend their programs to achieve that goal. I live in Germany and here all parties are leaning further and further to the right, since the AfD (nationalist-conservative, some party members Neo-nazi) party is gaining in almost every poll.
If all that was at play here was mere democracy, we’d have an M4A candidate. The population is solidly to the left of either party on the majority of issues, but they get no voice because liberal democracy is an exercise in choosing between the options that capitalists have picked for you.
Your bubble is.
This is much less snappy than it is grammatically ambiguous.
Let me rephrase: “Your echochamber is”
Both are fascist, the only difference is where the fascism is pointed. That’s why you’ll see a lot of fake leftists support Biden, because they don’t care about the world all they care about are themselves.
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What is the lesser evil when both the DNC and the GOP work directly for the exact same military industrial complex?
If you can have that plus corrupt democracy in America or that plus outright fascism in America, I’m not seeing how the choice is difficult.
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Oh no! I mean poopoo libs for those that can’t handle a little reality on neoliberalism. Ps. I’m not name calling. I’m making a point. BrooklynDad and Charlotte Clymer are examples of DNC shitlib’s from Twitter that did the exact same two party guilt trip.
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Your neoliberalism brings to Lemmy the worst toxicity from Twitter. Hold your head in shame.
I had missed being gaslighted by mature adults that also just so happened to be on the Progressive Policy Institute’s astroturfing payroll about being a horrible piece of shit if I didn’t hold my nose and vote for the lesser of two evils that screw their constituents in exactly the same way as the “bad guys” but do it with a smile. Go tell David Brock to transfer you to a new department.
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Did you forget that I can see your comment history? I’m going to do the right thing and block you once you read this. Please try to keep in mind that you are a supposed leftist who likes to shame other leftists who aren’t willing to compromise like you are. If you consider me toxic for pointing that out, maybe go touch some grass and sign off for a while.
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So called “free speech” liberals when someone is mean to them.
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Calling out libshit isn’t spewing hate and vitriol, thin-skinned cracker. If you want to be passively fascist without any pushback, go back to reddit. Or better yet, take this as an opportunity to grow as a person and realize that your world view is not only unpopular, it’s also evil.
You don’t get to suppress ideas that threaten your ego, that’s not how things work here.
You can instantly spot the pro-fascist pro-Russia tankies by this single word. And the comments just ooze peak toxicity while trying to act like some moral authority. They literally can’t help themselves but call names because I’m pretty sure 99% of them are actually children
I’m a tankie!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
If you care about nuance, I’m a libertarian socialist/anarcho syndicalist (Chomsky-ite) who thinks that democratic socialism MIGHT POSSIBLY lead to a more just society than the corruption extravaganza that we have. Sue me if I don’t fit the tech bro libertarian Jordan Peterson fanboi or fake leftist IT guy archetype that comprises the rest of the Lemmy population.
Nuance nonces on their way to defend nazi war criminals.
Sorry, it’s the rules. I have to post that everyone someone uses that word.
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Thanks for illustrating that libs don’t give a shit about democracy.
The point of Congress is to be able to challenge the singular power of the head of state if they get too power-hungry… it doesn’t work if you can just disregard it whenever you feel it’s inconvinient. Do you want a (for now) democratically elected dictatorship where there is no challenge to the power of the president?
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I love how the part you’re upset about is that the house won’t provide funding for murdering people. Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds.
But during some of those conversations, managers have told staffers they should not expect to influence U.S. policy on Israel-Palestine regardless of their national security chops, according to five current and one recently departed State Department officials who talked to HuffPost.
Keep in mind, that Biden has asked for a humanitarian cease fire in Gaza. This information is like fresh of last night, so I don’t expect news agencies to catch up fast.
It looks like Biden is lagging behind public opinion on this one, but he is turning course.
What that means going forward will depend on how much aid is let in Gaza by Israel.
Biden is specifically avoiding the term “cease-fire”:
The White House has refused to call for a cease-fire but has signaled that the Israelis should consider humanitarian pauses to allow civilians to receive aid and for foreign nationals trapped on the strip to leave Gaza.
Yeah, but probably because using the term would cause major political problems for him.
Honestly feeling like Trump is the lesser evil now… Genocide Joe has always been quite zealous in his support of Isntreal.
I think that’s grass-is-greener thinking and the lesson is that both the good cop and the bad cop work for the same police department.
Nah that’s dumb, Trump wouldn’t try to stop this happening, at all. And even if he tried to do something out of pure contrarianism, this isn’t something that his handlers would let him fuck up
Yeah maybe the guy who instituted a Muslim ban would be more supportive of the Palestinian people, good thought.
Okay, but imagine if Democratic Party was united against Trump in support of Palestinian people.
Without him in power to sharpen the contradictions, liberals fall into the trap of bipartisan consensus.
Consider Bernie and Fetterman’s statements. Mixed with the fact that only 17% of DNC staff signed the later asking Biden to pressure Israel to give a ounce of shit about people in Gaza.
If this was a Trump administration, we’d be ignoring what isreal is doing because we’d be fighting tooth and nail trying to protect Palestinians in America from being deported or placed into camps.
Bernie won’t even fucking endorse a ceasefire.
