Me too Bernie, me too.
Biden should step down as the nominee and ask Bernie to run.
I fucking hate, and from the bottom of my heart, how Biden is funding the genocide in Palestine, but I’m still going to vote for him this time, because we just can’t have a person like Trump in the white house, period. I still can’t figure out how he got in the first time. I’d never let my 10 year old lead a country, yet we let Trump do it for four fucking years. I, too, am sick of this “the lesser of two evils” bullshit, but this time I’m giving it a pass because of Trump. We already have a crumbling country and can’t afford another four years of this dude.
They don’t understand that Trump is just as pro-Israel as Biden, if not even more so considering he moved the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem.
That’s the great part about our democracy: You don’t get to vote for someone who isn’t pro-Israel. Because freedom.
Can you imagine how dumb it would be to vote for someone who isn’t though?
The only reason I think Trump isn’t pro-Palestine (Russian ally through Iran) is because the war is a good distraction from Ukraine
You have to be pro-Israel as the US but that doesn’t mean you can’t be pro-Palestinian
Palestine (Russian ally through Iran)
Russia isn’t in military allience with Iran. Both Russia and Iran are neighbors sanctioned by the US, forcing them into a business partnership by exclusion.
And Iran isn’t allied with Gaza Palestinians. You’re confusing them with the Yemeni Houthis and West Bank Hezbollah. What you have is Israelis engaging in terrorist acts against both states, then conflating retaliation with cooperation.
https://apnews.com/general-news-08f1ea9e849a49c5a741bf0e1582b616
Also Israel is a state not a terrorist organization, they are participating in war crimes
Also Israel is a state not a terrorist organization
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_and_state-sponsored_terrorism
An early example of Israeli state-sponsored was the 1954 Lavon Affair, a botched bomb plot in Egypt that led to the resignation of the Israeli defense minister at the time. In the 1970s and 1980s, Israel was also a major supplier of arms to dictatorial regimes in South America, Sub-Saharan Africa, and Asia. In the 21st-century, it has been accused of sponsoring and supporting several terrorist groups as part of its proxy conflict with Iran.
Israel is a state
Response:you’re right but here’s a list of organizations that are
Congratulations, just seems like wasted effort
https://al-shabaka.org/briefs/the-systematic-torture-of-palestinians-in-israeli-detention/
The recent case of Samer Arbeed highlighted once again the systematic use of torture against Palestinian detainees in Israeli prisons. Israeli soldiers arrested Arbeed at his home in Ramallah on September 25, 2019. They beat him severely before taking him to Al Moscobiyye detention center in Jerusalem for interrogation. Two days later, according to his lawyer, he was hospitalized as a result of severe torture, and lay in critical condition for several weeks. A judicial body had authorized the Israeli Secret Service, the Shin Bet, to use “exceptional methods” to extract information in this case without going through the courts. This led Amnesty International to condemn what happened to Arbeed as “legally-sanctioned torture.“
He absolutely is more so. Also, young people have more power to influence Biden because they are part of his coalition. Of course, using this power is tricky because you need to pressure and criticize Biden without actually making him lose. So far I support the pressure campaign but I hope as the election gets closer people will start to realize what an epic disaster Trump term two would be.
Yeah even to expand on that - they don’t understand that everything they don’t like about Biden, they’ll like about Trump less. I mean I have real serious gripes about Biden but it is insultingly stupid to pretend that Trump would be any kind of a solution to those problems.
It seems that many of them know that Trump is worse, but think that sticking to ideals and voting for a non-viable candidate (or not voting at all) is somehow the best course of action. Republicans count on people like that to win. Fascists don’t give a fuck how they get into power, as long as they do.
Republicans count on people like that to win.
Republicans have lost more than one Senate seat because they ran zealous nutbag losers in safe elections and pissed off moderates.
I’m not sure why Democrats get to run pro-war Zionists and Blue Lives fascists, free from the fear that they’ll suffer the same fate.
Because unfortunately the pro-Israel, pro- cop Democratic candidates are much closer to the average voter than the nutbag religious extremists are.
If that’s true, why do more Republicans hold office at the national, state, and local levels?
Gerrymandering, structural advantages, etc. the same as it’s always been.
This sounds like the strategy Republicans are banking on to win.
The GOP openly courts antisemites while also supporting Israel. They make sure to have all the awful bases covered.
They need all the Jews to return to Israel and the temple to be rebuilt so Jesus can come back. Of course, that does mean expelling all Jews from every other country Jews are in, but they leave that part out.
Zionism fits neatly into the view that every country should be ethically homogenous.
And once again, as the foreign trolls that are busy courting our youth want, not one comment in this entire thread mentions that Europe is on the brink of open modernized war should Ukraine fall to vlad “Ukraine is just a stepping stone” putin.
Gaza is a genocide, but that is not the critical geopolitical stage to be paying the most attention to. Once again it is completely ignored that the heads of hamas who attacked israel on oct 7 knowing exactly what they were about to cause are friends of putin.
The Gaza genocide was provoked precisely to pull western eyes from the Ukrainian front where russia was more than underperforming to ensure their victory in a sustained war of attrition.
You want to avoid a world war? You vote for biden whether u do it proudly or do it holding ur nose the way most of the sane will.
The Gaza genocide did not start on Oct 7, much like the Russian incursion on Unkraine did not start in Jan 2022. Both of those are tremendous blights on human rights and should be equally condemned.
Of course, voting for Biden is the only stable option as much as one may lament that it shouldn’t be.
Only stable option is supporting genocide? Do you hear how you are evil?
The other candidate will also support the Gaza genocide. Again, it’s unfortunate that both candidates are evil. And supporting the lesser evil is a bad long term strategy.
But, here we are.
Congress is bipartisan pro-Israel. This isn’t even a presidential issue.
Biden just happens to be the guy doing the pro-Israel stuff at the moment, so he’s eating the lions share of the public ire.
“You have to support the Pro-Israel guy because the other guy is pro-Israel and both party leaders are pro-Israel and the cops are trained by Israelis and Israeli businesses have strong ties with the MIC and Big Finance needs Israel to control trade through the Suez and you’re outnumbered and outgunned so quit fighting, just vote for Joe Biden” just isn’t a winning message among progressive voters this year.
Maybe try it again in 2026.
The thing is: Biden is pro-Israel but also pro-Palestinians. He’s providing aid to Gazans and pressuring Israel to minimize civilian casualties. It’s not great, or even good, I agree - but it’s a whole lot better than Trump who would be pro-Israel and anti-Palestinians. You’d see humanitarian aid end and the US support total war instead of the (slightly) restrained version we’re seeing now.
Biden is pro-Israel but also pro-Palestinians.
Right now it seems like the Biden Administration is trying to pressure Israel not to launch a military assault on Rafah and to allow in more humanitarian aid. At the same time, it has shown an unwillingness to take strong steps to punish Israel or to restrict the flow of aid or weapons to Israel if the Israelis disregard that pressure. How do you understand the strategy now?
I’d call the Biden Administration’s approach “passive-aggressive.” They are angry at Netanyahu, and were even before this. He’s presiding over the most extreme government in the history of the state of Israel. That government and the preceding dozen years of Netanyahu’s tenure are undermining the two fundamental drivers of the U.S.-Israeli relationship, which are shared values and common interests. So, it’s passive-aggressive in the sense that, six months into the war, the Administration has still been unwilling—unable—to impose a single cost or consequence that you and I, as normal human beings, would describe as real pressure.
Unable or unwilling?
Both, but I’ll get to that in a second. There were three levers the Administration could’ve pulled. They’re still available. No. 1 is to end U.S. military assistance. There’s no indication the Administration’s anywhere close to that. It just approved a shipment of two-thousand-pound bombs, and twenty F-35s. No. 2, change the U.S. voting posture at the U.N., either by introducing its own Security Council resolution, or by voting for someone else’s, that is very critical of Israel. It has not done that. No. 3, abandon the whole notion of negotiating the hostage release and simply join the chorus of those in the international community who basically say, “You need to pressure Israel to cease this military campaign.”
And I think it has not done these things
Biden is pro-Getting Relected. And he recognizes that his party is increasingly pro-Palestinian. However, his current policy appears to be a CYA strategy, intended to create the illusion of neutrality while negotiating a path that allows Israel to continue its extermination of Arab people across the region.
As this exterminationist Israeli agenda becomes more undeniable, the job of appearing neutral grows more difficult. And Biden’s decision to (tacitly) back Israel at all costs means risking friendly relations with Turkyie, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt. However, he’s staying the course, precisely because he’s banking on a mass expulsion and genocide of Palestinians today will strengthen Israel’s regional position in the future.
When I was young my parents introduced me to some old school Communists; folks who’d fought in the Spanish Civil War and been blacklisted in the 1950s.
One of the stories they told was that back in 1968 the oldtimers were warning people to vote for Hubert Humphrey because they knew how bad Nixon would be, Too many young folks then thought ‘both sides are the same.’
I don’t know much about him, but reading that he lost the young people vote for supporting the Vietnam War is such a good parallel for today.
LBJ realized he’d made a giant mistake and hoped Humphrey could end the War. Nixon ran as a ‘peace’ candidate and made things much worse.
Trump’s people would nuke the entire Middle East hoping to bring about the Rapture.
At what point does Biden realize he’s made a giant mistake? You’re lecturing us for not paying attention to history. Is Biden?
Turn it around.
Can you lay out a detailed plan showing Biden exactly what to do? Something that covers not just the Palestinians and the Israelis, but alos the iranians, the sryians, the russians, the Saudis, and all the other interested and highly armed parties in the region?
I have no idea how to restart a problem that’s been formenting since 1948, do you?
Stop shipping weapons to Israel.
If you think it’s that simple, you probably believed Trump was going to get Mexico to pay for the Wall.
You asked me a question and I answered it. Are you going to answer my question now?
At what point does Biden realize he’s made a giant mistake? You’re lecturing us for not paying attention to history. Is Biden?
Or hell, let me ask you. Given the choice between supporting Israel or Biden winning the election which would you choose?
Or maybe people are overestimating his survivability in the hardest job in the planet. My prediction is no matter the victor, by January of 2029, the outgoing president will neither be Trump or Biden.
…?
They’re old and likely to die by then. Their VP picks are very important.
People live to be 100 all the time.
That’s why I said likely and not inevitably. At their age, it is statistically likely.
I’m not sure. All my grandparents lived to be over 80, and they had some pretty shitty doctors, vs the country’s best like these guys have
Outliers are a thing.
Yeah exactly. Some people have excellent medical care, despite most not having it. Ignore the point though
I think it would be helpful if people tranformed their concerns from meaningless doomposting to active political effort.
Cause the first is almost as bad as not worrying at all.
The lesser of two evils argument only works if at some point you eventually give the people voting someone to vote for who is not evil. When you are forced to vote for evil after a while you lose hope and say screw this I’m not voting at all.
People don’t seem to realize that every time they downvote an opinion like this, they’re just further alienating the left.
Yeah and downvoting a racist will just alienate them and push them further right, and yet we still downvote.
While occasionally someone might realize that they are in the wrong, the value of condemnation is in signaling to the community that such views are not tolerated.
Racist? Lol OK.
I’ll take deeply flawed democracy over fascist autocracy every day of the week, thanks.
The establishment is not going to give up, they must be beaten at their own game. Perseverance is key. If you give up, you give up on your cause and accept whatever the establishment wishes.
Do what you want, but I will persevere, and I will vote for my interests.
okay real question for the omega libs here: where do you see people that are like. worth taking seriously, right, that are worth engaging with (maybe that’s the major filter that I’m blocking out here since most people seem incapable of choosing who they actually want to engage with), who are the people that are worth engaging with that aren’t going to vote for the old zionist rapist guy? I mean, the democractic one? I’m pulling your chain there but like for real, where do you see the opposition that’s actually real?
Most of the shit that I’ve seen, still, is like, people rightfully saying “oh, biden sucks, here’s why”, and then people bringing up “trump’s worse”. Like okay, just because I hate pancakes doesn’t mean I suddenly love waffles, you know? Food analogy I know I know, but really, like, where’s the real opposition coming from? I’m discounting the super pro-biden turbolibs also, because they annoy me with their smugness. So far as I can tell, the people who are fervently anti-biden to the point of like, idiocy, right, weren’t going to vote for him basically in any context, regardless of you know like damage control strategies, or the fact that voting didn’t take that much effort in totality compared to other activism they might do, or like, oh, could they vote as a protest in a non-swing state that’s basically guaranteed commitment to biden already as a kind of protest vote with questionable utility, that sort of thing. Most of the “opposition” I’ve seen hasn’t been actually calculated about any of that, because none of that stuff is really very controversial, or, it shouldn’t be. Most of them have just been like, not worth bothering with. Probably not russian bots or trolls like everyone would constantly say, because that’s also fucking idiotic, but probably, they’re just stupid people who aren’t worth wasting your time on.
Basically why the fuck is everyone wasting their time on this like, stupid bullshit? How come every election, in equal measure, I see “vote blue no matter who” imbeciles trotted out in lock step, to shout down at “I will never vote for anyone because I’m a posadist accelerationist” terminally online idiots? There’s no nuance or real depth to the conversation, or strategy, it’s just like. Both sides can construct a strawman, and then basically get away with it because, on the vastness of the internet, said strawman is guaranteed to exist, especially if I make it kind of a vague ghost that I’m punching at. And then because of that, nobody ever has to actually like, work out any of their arguments in depth, because they’re too busy kind of churning forth the cycle of idiocy.
I dunno, maybe digg 3.0 is just not conducive to good political discourse.
And a part of those threads always includes that one guy complaining about how hard it is to be so above the discussion.
Lol
yeah I post here quite a bit
Hahaha! i like the cut of your jib
I’ve been round and round with the same folks who your post is directed at, and the conclusion I’ve drawn is “our government sucks, this is the best we can do, get used to it.”
American history is littered with horrible actions. It’s not unreasonable to expect us to keep doing it. Our government was written to be undemocratic at the request of slaveholders. Even if we had a card-carrying capital-C Communist™ as president, there are massive mechanisms that would prevent them from achieving fundamental change.
Joe Biden is literally the best we can do. This craphole of a country that shoots children protesting the killing of other children is literally the best we can do.
It’s a lot less stressful to just accept this.
It’s a lot less stressful to just accept this.
I wonder if that’s why suicide rates are at all time highs.
Joe Biden is literally the best we can do
How many times do you say that in the mirror before you start your day?
yeah I dunno if I can though. I think probably if this is the best we can do then we’re headed down both a full-throated fascist reality of constant genocide, poverty, oppression, not only here but globally as america serves those ends globally, and basically a dystopian climate apocalypse on top of that.
If I accept that, then I become a little bit suicidal, which is not allowed.
Personally, i’m worried that the biden administration is underestimating the electoral importance of his decision to continue supporting Israel’s genocide against Palestinians.
If you are worried about the Palestinians, do you expect Trump to be more lenient in that regard? I think it would be even worse with Trump. He’d not be mildly criticizing Netanyahu, but would rather asking Netanyahu why he isn’t going further
Young people? How about Democrat party leadership? If you need certain people to vote for you, then you have to earn their votes! How is this so hard to understand?
because that attitude only helps the objectively more horrible politicians. how is this so hard to understand?
Demand more from your leaders than “less horrible”.
stakes are far too high to have the luxury of this brain dead take.
Stakes are so high, but Dem leadership believes that supporting a genocide is more important than winning an election? Talk about brain dead.
how about refusing to acknowledge that repubs would do the same or worse with this situation? no sane person thinks the situation is great. but brain dead is making a voting issue out of this when it isn’t one.
I’m trying to convince essentially one guy to stop supporting genocide. People like you have the unenviable task of convincing millions of people to vote for a guy who currently supports genocide. The election isn’t happening tomorrow, why don’t you put your efforts into convincing your party leaders to adopt saner positions rather than bullying people who are genuinely and rightly outraged at what our country is and isn’t doing in regards to it’s support of Israel?
there is an understandable wave of nihilism manifesting in the younger generations that will probably persist for as long as they live. i don’t imagine the united states will stop producing nihilists for a long time as the circumstances are not projected to change
Balance:
a) damage done by another Trump presidency
vs
b) damage done by demonstrating to the ruling class that you’ll give them whatever they want so long as you genuinely fear one of the candidates
Tough call. I wish each and every one of you who has a say in this clairvoyance beyond mine.
The fact you phrase it as though that’s an actual question is terrifying. You’re comparing someone who wants to LITERALLY be a dictator and never have an election again, to someone who isn’t willing to fully embrace every last left-wing policy you demand.
The “ruling class” didn’t dictate Bernie not getting the Democratic nomination, people voting in primaries did. Do you know which group of people overwhelmingly don’t vote in primaries? The same 20-somethings bitching about Biden being the “only other option”. Get the fuck out of here with your “demonstrating to the ruling class” - you had your opportunity to show up and overwhelm the primaries and chose not to. The “ruling class” don’t have the numbers to determine a primary, and if you choose to watch their commercials and buy into it, that’s on you. But hey, if a bunch of people think like you’ll they’ll find out what actually living in a dictatorship is like. And no, Canada isn’t just going to welcome you with open arms when the world starts burning down around you so I hope you’ve got an exit strategy.
What primaries are you talking about? The ones 4 years ago?
What choice were Democrats given for primaries this election cycle?
I wish less people were so jaded about voting…
Well, there is a very simple solution to this. The Democrats could actually be a progressive party that recognizes and protects human rights, international law, and basic humanity of its American people.
But they don’t. They continue to aid a genocide. They continue to obstruct justice on an international level. They continue the racist policies of Trumps like interment camps at the southern borders and building “the wall”. They continue to protect the interest of rich elites against the American people like denying universal healthcare and basic social security for all.
The Democrats would rather have Trump win, than have the US not be a violent rogue nation internationally and a far-right economics hellhole internally.
Now they decided to crack down on free speech together with the Republicans, instead of taking the young peoples protests seriously. They are fine with Trump. For them Trump is better than universal healthcare or upholding international laws, like not committing mass murder.
In addition, Democrats do everything possible to make sure nobody left of center wins the Democratic nomination: when there was a real challenge to the corporate Democrats (Bernie in 2016 and 2020), they did everything they could to rig the primary process in order to keep out any leftward movement. Similarly for 2024, instead of holding debates to convince Democrats that Joe Biden was still up to the task, they held no debates and even canceled the primaries in several states. In 2020, polling showed that Bernie would have a much more comfortable path to victory than Biden, but Democrats were more comfortable with Trump than Bernie.
Part of me wants to vote in Trump. Let shit come to a head sooner rather than later.
pictured: the literal reason bernie said these things.
piss off with your accelerationist bullshit. people are going to die and you are flaunting your privilege by admitting you don’t care when it comes.
Them run Bernie. You aren’t that much older than Biden. You are clearly more with it and cogent and your foreign policy is better by miles.
