Science has no goal. It cannot determine policy. It can tell you how certain policies may affect certain metrics, but it matters who decides what metrics matter ie. do we care if people have food, or if line go up.
Self evident to whom? We are ruled by ghouls who care more about profit than people’s lives. Shouldn’t it be “self-evident” to Biden that committing genocide is bad? Shouldn’t it be “self-evident” that corporations shouldn’t be getting away after poisoning millions of people? Shouldn’t it be “self evident” that if people work all day their wages should be enough to allow them to live decently?
These things may obviously be good, but it won’t be done until we have a system that puts people over profit.
Star Trek has an economic system, it’s not run “on science.” Star Trek is functionally fully automated luxury communism. Under capitalism we have the technology to have no scarcity, but that’s not profitable, so capitalists create scarcity by destroying excess product and not giving it to those in need. In Star Trek they have a duplicator thing so no one is in need and no one can make a profit. It is a communist utopia. If you want to see a rational society that implements policy for scientifically planned good look at China. Their ultimate goal is communism, but today for now their achievements include lifting hundreds of millions out of poverty, heavily subsidizing green technology allowing it to be cheap and accessible, and lifting people’s living standards so that the life expectancy is higher the wealthy western countries.
I don’t know too much about Star Trek, but with that extreme post scarcity, what do you need a government for? The reason we communists support abolishing police is because you don’t need any coercion if everyone has whatever material thing they could want or need.
Should we replace bees with mathematics? Those two aren’t exactly valid substitutes for each other.
Really we should just replace mathematics with bees. I can’t think of a problem that can’t be solved with more bees.
How would you be able to tell there are more bees without mathematics?
Easy, more bees
Absolutely
You add some, then you know for sure.
I’m thinking Snoop Dogg - Drop It Lik It’s Hot
But everytime he says “pop/drop it like it’s hot” it should instead be “add a swarm of bees”
Dr. Bees aggrees
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Dr. Bees aggrees
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
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Honey’s nice
I would much rather this than OP’s proposal.
Ooh look the monkeys like that one. Funny bees!
Think of them as 2 methods for determining policy. Sorry for the confusion.
They’re not though.
Democracy is a strategy some states use to achieve legitimacy in the eyes of the populace. Science is a method for producing knowledge.
Policy is determined by the financial interests of our elites, our global imperial interests, and the form of our bureaucratic institutions.
Democracy, science and policy are three very distinct domains.
They’re also spelled differently, aha!
@spiderwort could you give me some concrete examples. I can see it with a few things but not others. How does science determine:
abortion laws
your nation’s stance on Israel
marriage’s effect on taxes
individual custody disputes
animal cruelty laws
Observe, model, propose policies… run simulations even
Plain ol science
I’m trying to keep an open mind here but so far, you’re being too vague to be persuasive.
Observe what exactly?
Model what?
Propose what kind of policies based on what assumptions and which goals?
Obviously I know what science is. I just don’t see how it applies here.
Observe what exactly? If you’re designing an experiment you know what results you’re interested in and what implications the research has.
Seriously, pick one thing from my list above and talk me through how you would use pure science to formulate policy?
Science has no goal. It cannot determine policy. It can tell you how certain policies may affect certain metrics, but it matters who decides what metrics matter ie. do we care if people have food, or if line go up.
Assume that we’ve got self-evident goals. Maximization of health, happiness, security…
Self evident to whom? We are ruled by ghouls who care more about profit than people’s lives. Shouldn’t it be “self-evident” to Biden that committing genocide is bad? Shouldn’t it be “self-evident” that corporations shouldn’t be getting away after poisoning millions of people? Shouldn’t it be “self evident” that if people work all day their wages should be enough to allow them to live decently?
These things may obviously be good, but it won’t be done until we have a system that puts people over profit.
Jeez, soapbox much?
Yes, I think that a sane, self-aware, scientifically-rigorous system would choose public health over that bad stuff you mentioned.
Like The Federation in Star Trek.
Star Trek has an economic system, it’s not run “on science.” Star Trek is functionally fully automated luxury communism. Under capitalism we have the technology to have no scarcity, but that’s not profitable, so capitalists create scarcity by destroying excess product and not giving it to those in need. In Star Trek they have a duplicator thing so no one is in need and no one can make a profit. It is a communist utopia. If you want to see a rational society that implements policy for scientifically planned good look at China. Their ultimate goal is communism, but today for now their achievements include lifting hundreds of millions out of poverty, heavily subsidizing green technology allowing it to be cheap and accessible, and lifting people’s living standards so that the life expectancy is higher the wealthy western countries.
But does it have a voting system?
Because I don’t recall seeing any voting booths in the Enterprise.
Why do you care? Star Trek is fictional, but socialism is real and democratic, moving toward communism (like Star Trek).
I don’t know too much about Star Trek, but with that extreme post scarcity, what do you need a government for? The reason we communists support abolishing police is because you don’t need any coercion if everyone has whatever material thing they could want or need.