was it ridiculous for people to doubt that iraq had wmds?

as a sane person, I actually did look into it, and found that structural steel does weaken significantly at the temperature jet fuel burns at.

what they hate is there being cultural aspects not under their control

china claims they were interning uighurs to prevent extremist terrorism and separatism, not control culture. xinjiang shares a border with afghanistan. the claim is that uighurs were going off to fight in syria and other regions, then coming back to start shit at home. china claims the mass detainment of uighurs was to provide language and vocational training to counter the sway of jihadists returning from the middle east.

the russian soul

I hope you’ve lived in Russia all your life, because it seems pretty gauche to make sweeping statements about the essential character of an entire population you are not a member of

sane leftists generally simply discount tankie talking points out of hand

how is this sane? tankies might well be wrong, but I don’t see how they’re obviously wrong. the west does lie about its enemies. a million iraqis died on a lie in our lifetimes.

Thanks for this write-up. Great link to send people.

eh, 12/10 is more informative than 2

I think you can see how many instances an instance has defederated from here, in the “Bl” column https://github.com/maltfield/awesome-lemmy-instances. scroll down to All Lemmy Instances

beehaw has defederated from 352 other lemmy instances, including two of the largest - lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works. I would be cautious about settling in there.

The reason people are fleeing towards western nations is that the west extracts 25% of its GDP from the impoverished colony states these people are fleeing from.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S095937802200005X

Unequal exchange theory posits that economic growth in the “advanced economies” of the global North relies on a large net appropriation of resources and labour from the global South, extracted through price differentials in international trade. Past attempts to estimate the scale and value of this drain have faced a number of conceptual and empirical limitations, and have been unable to capture the upstream resources and labour embodied in traded goods. Here we use environmental input-output data and footprint analysis to quantify the physical scale of net appropriation from the South in terms of embodied resources and labour over the period 1990 to 2015. We then represent the value of appropriated resources in terms of prevailing market prices. Our results show that in 2015 the North net appropriated from the South 12 billion tons of embodied raw material equivalents, 822 million hectares of embodied land, 21 exajoules of embodied energy, and 188 million person-years of embodied labour, worth $10.8 trillion in Northern prices – enough to end extreme poverty 70 times over. Over the whole period, drain from the South totalled $242 trillion (constant 2010 USD). This drain represents a significant windfall for the global North, equivalent to a quarter of Northern GDP. For comparison, we also report drain in global average prices. Using this method, we find that the South’s losses due to unequal exchange outstrip their total aid receipts over the period by a factor of 30. Our analysis confirms that unequal exchange is a significant driver of global inequality, uneven development, and ecological breakdown.

As for the rest of what you said, see my other comment

Why would there be only one lie?

Western audiences care when a lie costs a lot of tax money and soldier’s lives. Under those circumstances the lie eventually hits the headlines. Otherwise people tend not to look into it and the bullshit goes unchallenged, especially when questioning it means denying an atrocity. That’s the whole point of atrocity propaganda. It works especially well on leftists because leftists are goodhearted people who care about atrocities.

For example, saying “Although people died in violent clashes on Chang’an Avenue and elsewhere in Beijing, no one died in Tiananmen Square” is a bad look. Your reaction to it isn’t curiosity, your reaction is “how dare you erase the lives of those thousands of brave students who were crushed into a paste under the treads of tanks in Tiananmen Square!” And I fucking commend that reaction, it proves you have a heart.

and yet

• Wikileaks published diplomatic cables acknowledging that no one died in the square [1].

• Multiple established western journalists who were present at Tiananmen have said that no one died in the square [2][3][4][5][6]. These journalists are all otherwise critics of the Chinese government.

• Multiple organizers of the protests have said that no one died in the square [7]. Hou Dejian, who was there all night, called out the false narrative in an interview: “Are we going to use lies against an enemy who lies?”[8]

• A Spanish film crew was in in the square all night and filmed students leaving peacefully at dawn, singing the Internationale. Here it is on Youtube: [9]. This aired on Hong Kong news but never in the west — I wonder why?

But even if these sources managed to convince you, you’re not gonna go around telling other people, because “The Tiananmen Square massacre never happened” sounds absurd and makes you look like some kind of holocaust denier — except the holocaust is supported by overwhelming evidence and the Tiananmen Square massacre is not.

So now you’re aware of two lies.

Turns out there’s a third lie, and a fourth lie, and…

You could write a post like this on North Korea, and people have [10].

You could write a post like this on Xinjiang, and people have [11].

I’m running out of bookmarks now — I don’t make a habit of writing posts like this — but I hope I have at least gotten the point across that tankies have their reasons, and in a media landscape as distorted as the one we live in I think it is absurd to write them off as easily as people do.

you can just click next and skip it

I love this idea, but you would need a list of communities for a given topic, and some way to curate it.

or buy the apps and incorporate their functionality

The dismissal of tankies really bothers me.

Remember Iraq’s WMDs? Remember how the intelligence reports were actually based on a Nicholas Cage movie called The Rock? Remember how this goofy story was nevertheless widely reported and believed, and America still invaded Iraq, and 2.4 million Iraqis still died? Remember how 4 in 10 Americans still think America found WMDs in Iraq to this day?

the Iraq WMDs story inundated western media. It was everywhere. And everyone believed it. And millions died as a result. Tankies and other leftists disagree mainly on what is western distortion and what is true. That is an important question to think about, not one to be dismissed out of hand. America does lie about its enemies, and it does have enormous resources for selling those lies to the public. And people die when those lies are believed.