• Hillock@feddit.de
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    8 months ago

    Sport is such an unfair world, trying to find equality and justice in it is futile. We don’t want kids taking growth hormones to boost their chances of making it into the NBA. But that also means we crush the dream of plenty of people. Athletes with asthma can’t use their inhaler under certain circumstances. A few years ago an UFC fighter with Asthma got his win overturned because he used an inhaler inbetween rounds.

    There was a huge discussion about allowing prosthetics in “regular” competition. Turned out at the time that proshetics weren’t advanced enough to give an advantage. But I think we all know that this is only a matter of time. And eventually a hard ruling needs to be made that dictates in which direction sport goes.

    Banning athletes who take as many hormones, hormone blockers, and other mediaction as transwomen usually take is 100% something that needs to happen. Especially considering that in certain leagues the usage of these substances is the only reason that transwomen are allowed to compete. That feels against the spirit of sport and TUEs. But untill more data exist, I doubt a useful ruling can be made.

    What I don’t like about the whole discussion is going for the “They aren’t real women” argument. That feels degrading and hurtful for everyone involved. I don’t want cis or transwomen to have to undergo inspections to determine their gender.

    • SeaJ@lemm.ee
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      8 months ago

      Banning athletes who take as many hormones, hormone blockers, and other mediaction as transwomen usually take is 100% something that needs to happen.

      Those hormone blockers block testosterone and the hormones they take are estrogen. Those are not exactly performance enhancing actions. In fact, they do the opposite. If anything, we should be making sure that trans women competing in sports should be taking hormone blockers and estrogen.

      You need to re-examine your take because it is truly baffling.

      • zerog_bandit@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        Why do transgender athletes have such a problem with competing in the all-comers category instead of the women’s category, which is reserved for XX born females who have been producing all of the hormones you describe above since birth?

        • SeaJ@lemm.ee
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          8 months ago

          You just made up those requirements. Are XXX and XXY women not allowed to compete in your sport that you made up the requirements for? What about women with Swyer syndrome?

          As for why women would prefer competing in a women’s competition, that question kind of answers itself.

          • zerog_bandit@lemmy.world
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            8 months ago

            Thankfully we can test for which mutations of sex chromosomes produce hormonal profiles that are equivalent to XX born females. In fact, we do that already! :)

      • LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        8 months ago

        Lolololol he won’t listen because of course he knows better: he’s cis after all, he’s heard the word hormones on television before! It’s all the same! He knows better! /s

    • whoreticulture@lemmy.world
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      8 months ago

      But the “hormones” you generically refer to, aka fucking estrogen lol, and hormone blockers Trans women take aren’t an advantage. Ask any trans women, they make you weaker…

      Like why point out trans women when trans MEN are taking a hormone that actually promotes strength and athleticism? TERF vibes

      • derf82@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        They make you weaker, perhaps, but are you at the same level as a cis woman who was never exposed to that level of testosterone?

        And trans men are just competing against men that naturally produce those same hormones.

        It is simply a complex issue that defies a simple answer.

        • Takumidesh@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          There are plenty of cis women that have higher natural t levels than men, that’s why many sports already required people stay under certain t levels before trans sporting rights were even in the question.

          • derf82@lemmy.world
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            8 months ago

            The effects of increased testosterone last a long time, even if it’s being blocked. And how exactly are testosterone levels being monitored? When? When, if ever, do the athletic advantages of male puberty and testosterone wear off?

            People have reasonable and legitimate concerns beyond accusations of transphobia. Sweeping those concerns under the rug and acting like they are unfounded will earn the trans community little support.

            • LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              8 months ago

              Lmao, do you not even know that transition literally involves monitoring your E and T levels like, at least monthly to start with, to see what you know - the fucking dosage you need to suppress T and raise E to the needed level is? When trans women talk about their T levels, like I did ITT, do you think we’re just making it up or what?

              The advantages wear off pretty quick in terms of strength, but hey I’m fine with banning trans adults from competing if we make sure that future trans people can compete by being allowed to take puberty blockers when they actually need them (pre puberty).

            • whoreticulture@lemmy.world
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              8 months ago

              So you’re threatening your support of the trans community based on whether or not people agree with your sports opinions. Or, at least you’re implying it’s legitimate that people would do so. L take. Transphobic vibes.

              • derf82@lemmy.world
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                8 months ago

                Not agree, but willing to at least engage in a good faith discussion of issues rather than resorting to accusations of transphobia.

                • whoreticulture@lemmy.world
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                  8 months ago

                  This is not a good faith discussion on your part and the fact that you don’t realize that is why I’m calling you transphobic.

              • ieatpillowtags@lemm.ee
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                8 months ago

                Anyone who disagrees with me is transphobic! It’s obviously not possible for me to be wrong!

        • whoreticulture@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          Every woman has variations in their hormone makeups and history. Besides, the pool of trans women athletes is just so small, and the amount of vitriol is so disproportionate and obviously rooted in transphobia.

          • derf82@lemmy.world
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            8 months ago

            The variations between biological men and women are larger and more significant than those between women.

            And it isn’t that insignificant. Lia Thomas won an NCAA title, beating an Olympic silver medalist. Laurel Hubbard went to the Olympics. She lived as male 35 years before transitioning. She had given up weightlifting decades earlier. But at that age with little training, she suddenly qualified for the Olympics.