As someone who went from Android to iOS back to Android, I still prefer the Android experience. Things like F Droid, access to the entire file system, custom ROMs (running GrapheneOS currently), browsers actually being themselves and not based on WebKit, not having to use an account (I believe even on stock android you do not need to be signed in to an account to use it whereas Apple you are forced to use an Apple ID), being able to change your default SMS, phone, camera, gallery, launcher, etc etc etc.
There are just so many things that still make Android more open than iOS and feels like you actually own the device and can do whatever the hell you want.
Not entirely true. For most functionality on Android, you also need to be signed in with Google, but you can de-google it. On Apple, it’s the same, but you can’t de-apple it. You can currently only use the App Store which needs an Apple ID, so you can use without an Apple ID but you lose like 80% of the stuff you could use your phone for.
You kind of are forced to use it app store aside. You can not use iMessage without an apple ID but you could use RCS without a Google account. Another bigger drawback to not using an Apple ID is backing up is going to be an absolute pain. Because you can’t access the file system on iOS, for things like photos and contacts or messages, your only options would be iCloud as far as I know (I could be wrong) or I guess if you have a Macbook as well Airdrop?
you do need an apple id. I was just saying other than the app store, there are still many things that you have more freedom with on android than on iOS
In the EU at least, that restriction will be gone in a couple months.
You can not use iMessage without an apple ID but you could use RCS without a Google account.
You can use SMS without an Apple ID, and iMessage falls back gracefully to SMS. Photos will be lower quality and sending messages to international phone numbers will be expensive… but it will work and RCS support is coming to iPhone later this year which should fix both of those.
Another bigger drawback to not using an Apple ID is backing up is going to be an absolute pain.
Not really. You just plug it into a PC with a USB cable, and it automatically does a backup. You could just do that every night to charge your phone.
Because you can’t access the file system on iOS, for things like photos and contacts or messages, your only options would be iCloud as far as I know (I could be wrong) or I guess if you have a Macbook as well Airdrop?
Yeah you’re wrong. The “Files” app on iOS, which is also embedded in various apps as a file open/save/import/export/share/etc option, has a plugin architecture where third party apps can provide all the same file storage as iCloud. You can use Google Drive, Microsoft OneDrive, Dropbox, Bit Torrent Sync, an Git server, etc, etc by simply installing a third party apps.
In fact, Apple charges monthly fee to use iCloud in the files app (assuming you want to store a reasonable amount of data in the cloud). As far as I know, most iPhone users don’t pay and a lot of those people would be using third party file apps.
Access to photos/contacts/calendar/etc is also fully available via an API, though I’d encourage you not to let apps access that data. There’s quite a long history of it being used for some really creepy levels of tracking — for example, most photos have metadata including date/time/location and face recognition is trivial these days. You’re handing over a detailed location history for both yourself and anyone you’ve ever photographed by giving access to your data, and third party apps have been caught using this for malicious purposes. Sometimes unwittingly, as part of a third party library. Obviously it depends on the app - if you want Flickr to be your cloud storage/backup for your photo library, that’s probably safe (and Flickr does have that feature).
Connecting an iPhone to an Apple ID is entirely optional. The only requirement is a quick check on first run wether or not the device has been reported as stolen. The App Store is the only essential functionality that requires an account with Apple even that is technically optional (you can sideload enterprise/school/work related apps for example as well as if you’re a developer you can sideload your own apps, and you can do all of that without an Apple ID on the device (the developer/enterprise/school/etc will need an account).
If you are an apple fan, just admit it and move on. It is a well known fact that Android, even after all Google has done, even if you get the Samsung bloated version Android (OneUI) is still a much more open platform than iOS will EVER be, and has always been one of Android’s main selling points, because otherwise we all know that Apple hardware is superior. Too bad you only get that superior hardware if you walk in to the walled garden and worship daddy Tim.
Yeah you’re wrong. The “Files” app on iOS, which is also embedded in various apps as a file open/save/import/export/share/etc option, has a plugin architecture where third party apps can provide all the same file storage as iCloud
Photos, contacts, messages etc aren’t exposed to Files. The person you’ve replied to seems to be talking about cloud-syncing them with a third-party service or backing them up in a computer-decryptable way.
you can sideload enterprise/school/work related apps
But any other personal app will not be downloadable unless you plan to only use 3 that aren’t already installed.
For most functionality on Android, you also need to be signed in with Google
Really? Funny, my Lineage devices have zero Google Crap and they work just fine. Phone, email, SMS, messengers (Telegram, XMPP, Wire, SimpleX, Signal), web works fine, I’m able to run my sync tools like Foldersync, Syncthing, Resilio, my calendar works, my shopping list app works and syncs to their servers just fine, I use 4 mapping apps two are offroad/hiking, same ones I used when it had google) my address book works, etc.
I have ~300 apps on my phone.
So what’s this “most functionality” thing that I apparently don’t know about?
That’s de-googling (which I specifically mentioned in my previous comment). I’m talking about the stock experience most people will have on Android. For that, you need a Google account.
An user not familiar with Android will just use the Play Store, and they’ll need to log in with Google.
But you can use sideloading and different stores for that.
That’s (part of) what I said. You can also remove your Apple ID after you downloaded some apps, but that doesn’t change the fact that you need one to do so.
Same here with GrapheneOS. Perfectly functional. They even added Android Auto support recently which I have not tried but will eventually try once I have a car that supports it. I don’t have as many apps as you but I do have a good bit and have zero issues.
Still having to buy completely another device to switch operating systems…
Not because the system was not adapted yet, but because of software locks and purposful roadblocks.
This would actually be a big step for many Android users wanting to try out another OS.
That’s the biggest benefit, competition ripples back and forth across services and improves everything. One thing gets better, so other things have to get better, so everything gets better.
Apple will find a way to appease the dumbasses in Europe
I imagine Tim Apple’s bottom is shinier than Bender’s from all that kissing. One often wonders why people keep drinking the Kool-Aid from such behemoths. Must be something in the water.
but there’s nothing in the law that states they have to let you sideload whatever you choose
That’s pretty much exactly what the law does say.
The gatekeeper shall allow and technically enable the installation and effective use of third-party software applications or software application stores using, or interoperating with, its operating system and allow those software applications or software application stores to be accessed by means other than the relevant core platform services of that gatekeeper.
There’s a provision for not letting the user actively break the device, but that’s it. And it’s couched in terms like “if strictly necessary and proportionate” and “provided they are justified”, so it’s not something Apple can apply on a whim.
It doesn’t say anything about specific software. They have to allow you to use third party stores, they don’t have to allow you to download torrent apps so that you can pirate.
Literally in the quote I posted…
The gatekeeper shall allow and technically enable the installation and effective use of third-party software applications or software application stores
There was a time, on Android custom roms, if you had pirated apps installed, they were uninstalled automatically. I see something similar happening here.
I’m sure Apple will do malware scans on third party apps, like they do on the Mac. But if they start uninstalling legitimate third party apps, that’s going to be treated as “no allowing third party app stores” and the maximum EU fine for that is high enough to bankrupt Apple. They won’t do it.
the maximum EU fine for that is high enough to bankrupt Apple. They won’t do it.
I don’t think Apple will remove side loaded apps at a massive scale, but let’s be real. Apple is worth more than a trillion. If the EU fines them enough to bankrupt, they will just leave the EU and not pay the fine. US would go to war with the EU before they allow such amount of money to be transferred to the EU.
Meta has already got fined for more than a billion at one point for breaking the GDPR, which has smaller fines than the DMA. The US did not really do anything. The US will not go to war with its biggest ally over Apple, hell, it doesn’t stop militarily supporting key regional allies over genocide.
Also, fines are not based on market capitalization, but on global revenue. How this would bankrupt Apple is not that the EU would bite off a trillion, but that they would grab a few bil from the revenue, and that would put Apple in the red, triggering selloffs and Apple’s valuation evaporating.
This would actually be a big step for many Android users wanting to try out another OS.
I know for myself that sideloading apps is a must for me on my phone, and if an iPhone could do that, it’s at least one step closer for consideration.
As someone who went from Android to iOS back to Android, I still prefer the Android experience. Things like F Droid, access to the entire file system, custom ROMs (running GrapheneOS currently), browsers actually being themselves and not based on WebKit, not having to use an account (I believe even on stock android you do not need to be signed in to an account to use it whereas Apple you are forced to use an Apple ID), being able to change your default SMS, phone, camera, gallery, launcher, etc etc etc.
There are just so many things that still make Android more open than iOS and feels like you actually own the device and can do whatever the hell you want.
Not entirely true. For most functionality on Android, you also need to be signed in with Google, but you can de-google it. On Apple, it’s the same, but you can’t de-apple it. You can currently only use the App Store which needs an Apple ID, so you can use without an Apple ID but you lose like 80% of the stuff you could use your phone for.
You kind of are forced to use it app store aside. You can not use iMessage without an apple ID but you could use RCS without a Google account. Another bigger drawback to not using an Apple ID is backing up is going to be an absolute pain. Because you can’t access the file system on iOS, for things like photos and contacts or messages, your only options would be iCloud as far as I know (I could be wrong) or I guess if you have a Macbook as well Airdrop?
You can sync photos with tools like Syncthing, but it’s not automatic because of how iOS stores photos.
Wait so you don’t need an Apple ID for the App Store? Or did I interpret your comment wrong.
you do need an apple id. I was just saying other than the app store, there are still many things that you have more freedom with on android than on iOS
In the EU at least, that restriction will be gone in a couple months.
You can use SMS without an Apple ID, and iMessage falls back gracefully to SMS. Photos will be lower quality and sending messages to international phone numbers will be expensive… but it will work and RCS support is coming to iPhone later this year which should fix both of those.
Not really. You just plug it into a PC with a USB cable, and it automatically does a backup. You could just do that every night to charge your phone.
Yeah you’re wrong. The “Files” app on iOS, which is also embedded in various apps as a file open/save/import/export/share/etc option, has a plugin architecture where third party apps can provide all the same file storage as iCloud. You can use Google Drive, Microsoft OneDrive, Dropbox, Bit Torrent Sync, an Git server, etc, etc by simply installing a third party apps.
In fact, Apple charges monthly fee to use iCloud in the files app (assuming you want to store a reasonable amount of data in the cloud). As far as I know, most iPhone users don’t pay and a lot of those people would be using third party file apps.
Access to photos/contacts/calendar/etc is also fully available via an API, though I’d encourage you not to let apps access that data. There’s quite a long history of it being used for some really creepy levels of tracking — for example, most photos have metadata including date/time/location and face recognition is trivial these days. You’re handing over a detailed location history for both yourself and anyone you’ve ever photographed by giving access to your data, and third party apps have been caught using this for malicious purposes. Sometimes unwittingly, as part of a third party library. Obviously it depends on the app - if you want Flickr to be your cloud storage/backup for your photo library, that’s probably safe (and Flickr does have that feature).
Connecting an iPhone to an Apple ID is entirely optional. The only requirement is a quick check on first run wether or not the device has been reported as stolen. The App Store is the only essential functionality that requires an account with Apple even that is technically optional (you can sideload enterprise/school/work related apps for example as well as if you’re a developer you can sideload your own apps, and you can do all of that without an Apple ID on the device (the developer/enterprise/school/etc will need an account).
If you are an apple fan, just admit it and move on. It is a well known fact that Android, even after all Google has done, even if you get the Samsung bloated version Android (OneUI) is still a much more open platform than iOS will EVER be, and has always been one of Android’s main selling points, because otherwise we all know that Apple hardware is superior. Too bad you only get that superior hardware if you walk in to the walled garden and worship daddy Tim.
Photos, contacts, messages etc aren’t exposed to Files. The person you’ve replied to seems to be talking about cloud-syncing them with a third-party service or backing them up in a computer-decryptable way.
But any other personal app will not be downloadable unless you plan to only use 3 that aren’t already installed.
Really? Funny, my Lineage devices have zero Google Crap and they work just fine. Phone, email, SMS, messengers (Telegram, XMPP, Wire, SimpleX, Signal), web works fine, I’m able to run my sync tools like Foldersync, Syncthing, Resilio, my calendar works, my shopping list app works and syncs to their servers just fine, I use 4 mapping apps two are offroad/hiking, same ones I used when it had google) my address book works, etc.
I have ~300 apps on my phone.
So what’s this “most functionality” thing that I apparently don’t know about?
That’s de-googling (which I specifically mentioned in my previous comment). I’m talking about the stock experience most people will have on Android. For that, you need a Google account.
An user not familiar with Android will just use the Play Store, and they’ll need to log in with Google.
Not really, you can just remove your Google Account after setting it up and things will stay working without issue.
You only really need a Google account to download apps from the Play store. But you can use sideloading and different stores for that.
That’s (part of) what I said. You can also remove your Apple ID after you downloaded some apps, but that doesn’t change the fact that you need one to do so.
Same here with GrapheneOS. Perfectly functional. They even added Android Auto support recently which I have not tried but will eventually try once I have a car that supports it. I don’t have as many apps as you but I do have a good bit and have zero issues.
Good luck even getting close on iOS…
deleted by creator
Still having to buy completely another device to switch operating systems… Not because the system was not adapted yet, but because of software locks and purposful roadblocks.
That’s the biggest benefit, competition ripples back and forth across services and improves everything. One thing gets better, so other things have to get better, so everything gets better.
Knock-on effects are insanely good.
Nah. As an Android user, the only other OS’s I’m interested in are ones that further embrace the Linux ecosystem.
Removed by mod
I imagine Tim Apple’s bottom is shinier than Bender’s from all that kissing. One often wonders why people keep drinking the Kool-Aid from such behemoths. Must be something in the water.
Removed by mod
I’d beg to differ, this whole “leave Britney alone” shtick is really tiresome.
That’s pretty much exactly what the law does say.
There’s a provision for not letting the user actively break the device, but that’s it. And it’s couched in terms like “if strictly necessary and proportionate” and “provided they are justified”, so it’s not something Apple can apply on a whim.
Removed by mod
Literally in the quote I posted…
I’m sure Apple will do malware scans on third party apps, like they do on the Mac. But if they start uninstalling legitimate third party apps, that’s going to be treated as “no allowing third party app stores” and the maximum EU fine for that is high enough to bankrupt Apple. They won’t do it.
I don’t think Apple will remove side loaded apps at a massive scale, but let’s be real. Apple is worth more than a trillion. If the EU fines them enough to bankrupt, they will just leave the EU and not pay the fine. US would go to war with the EU before they allow such amount of money to be transferred to the EU.
Meta has already got fined for more than a billion at one point for breaking the GDPR, which has smaller fines than the DMA. The US did not really do anything. The US will not go to war with its biggest ally over Apple, hell, it doesn’t stop militarily supporting key regional allies over genocide.
Also, fines are not based on market capitalization, but on global revenue. How this would bankrupt Apple is not that the EU would bite off a trillion, but that they would grab a few bil from the revenue, and that would put Apple in the red, triggering selloffs and Apple’s valuation evaporating.
Please step on me harder Mr.Apple!
Removed by mod
You’re the one championing for it champ.
Removed by mod
And I’m just telling it like it is too.
If you don’t like it stop whinging to me.
Removed by mod
Aww someone can’t handle being told like how it is.
Irony.
If less options is the only selling point of iOS, then it is a shit OS.
There is, actually. And there is much more, you also will be able to publish on the App Store without using Apple’s payment services for example.
EU lawmakers are slow, but not completely stupid.