I thought the last one was just conservatives making stuff up until I joined Lemmy.
Don’t get me wrong, the woman in the tweet is awful, especially the part about hating men who dare to have emotions, but I’m responding purely to the last thing on this list.
A lot of Lemmy users seem to think all they need to do to be immune to misogyny is to be leftist. It’s just been getting real tiring for me browsing this site seeing men be praised for things they at the same time put women down for. Not that men shouldn’t be praised for these things, but the double standard here is immense.
The major one I’ve noticed is putting down women for having a preference on height or even dick size, but men are allowed to only want big boobs or petite women because it’s “a natural expression of human sexuality.”
There’s also that I’ve seen several times men on here complaining when women are given safe spaces and resources specifically for them, like job fairs and such, and the comments being filled with how it should have been open to men as well because not doing so is sexist, meanwhile being totally ok and even ecstatic when a resource is opened specifically for men.
Like, I’m trans. I’ve lived on the other side of the coin. I’m glad men around here have a safe space to display their frustrations and discuss men’s issues that in most places you’d be crucified for even mentioning. I just wish this could be a safe space for both genders, not just the one who holds the majority. There are a lot of times I feel straight up unwelcome on Lemmy simply because I’m a women.
My 2c on this, I wish people would understand that a lot of women have similar struggles, same for men, and having spaces for those experiences to be shared with people who understand is really important.
I think the issue is it feels pretty othering when I’ve had experiences similar and feel like I’m not allowed to share them (without a lot of angry stares) because I’m not the correct gender.
I know there have been cases of women’s spaces being taken less seriously, but I don’t remember any specifics. Do you have any examples that come to mind?
It’d take me ages to find the post, but a while back, there was a post about a job fair for women getting overrun by a tidal wave of men. The comments were filled with people trying to justify it, such as saying that it was illegal and sexist to host a job fair for women only, and people even the slightest bit upset that a job fair for women was overrun by men abusing the legal loophole that they technically couldn’t be kicked out got down voted way to the bottom of the thread.
I found the post https://lemmy.world/post/6206801 and here https://kbin.social/m/[email protected]/t/508848
Yeah I guess you have to see it firsthand. I’ve heard tons of comments like “women just aren’t built for STEM” etc which these events are trying to show is wrong. It is probably a little unfair to the individual but good for society as a whole when talented women don’t see a field is 90% men and decide it’s not worth dealing with the boys club.
I do wanna point out, the most upvoted comments seem to have the same sentiment of this actually is important and a good thing to have for women. Definitely quite a few with a high score that say the opposite though…
That is the post I was talking about. I did forget about the few higher pro-woman comments. I guess I tend to remember the bad more than the good.
Still unpleasant how many people around here are completely ok with stuff like that though, but I suppose it’s worth focusing on the positive.
Comments like that are utter trash. Only an incel believes in that BS. It’s as if they never knew that one of, if not the first programmers, was Ada Lovelace.
That wasn’t a loophole, what that event was doing was open and naked gender discrimination and their ban on men was legally unenforceable. The law was on their side. What women should do in retaliation is bum rush those men’s clubs where all the power decisions are made by the top 1% of men. Fun fact the dean of my uni’s computer science dept was a woman, and decades later it still is. THEY have a crucial role in recruiting women students, it begins at the start of the pipeline.
I hope it’s not rude that I checked your profile and saw your explanation. I can see how I might have misinterpreted that. The way I interpreted the “sensitive men” and “emotional labor” part was as reinforcing the toxic masculine stereotype that men are supposed to just “man up” and not show emotion. Unfortunately, that’s an aspect of toxic masculinity upheld by women just as much as men.
The major one I’ve noticed is putting down women for having a preference on height or even dick size, but men are allowed to only want big boobs or petite women because it’s “a natural expression of human sexuality.”
I see men being constantly shamed and catching blowback for those preferences. I mean we can’t hope to succeed in shaming women into wanting short men or poor men, etc. but shouldn’t the same rule apply to men? More insane is that wanting a tall man is more “legitimate” than wanting big boobs or athletic build in women. The rules are constantly altered to justify all women’s preferences and demonize men’s.
Also as a man you can be banned from Reddit not for saying “no trans woman” but just for saying “I want a cis woman”. Feminist subreddits will go for your head, too. (Don’t get me wrong if one of my kids is dating a trans person I will support them totally also.) I’ve gotten the vibe that you risk your account here over that, too.
You are correct that in most environments, it is the other way around. In most places, women wanting tall men is considered normal and acceptable, but men having any preference at all is not. My point was not about how things are in society as a whole, but how things are on the larger Lemmy instances. However, even that seems to have rapidly changed since I made this comment. There was a thread about men’s issues I saw recently that didn’t devolve into “this is why women are awful” and actually stayed on topic, and that was really nice to see.
What I was frustrated about was that there was no space where both men’s and women’s preferences were respected, and also not resorting to body shaming when people do not meet those preferences. Lemmy is primarily dominated by men, which naturally makes it easier to talk about men’s issues without being shamed for it, but it did lead, for a while, to women’s issues not only being overlooked, but also often being intentionally ignored or outright shamed, mostly because men could not understand these issues they’d never experienced, so they didn’t feel as real (which is largely the same reason women often have trouble respecting men’s issues.)
I’m guessing it has to do with Lemmy’s population finally growing again and new perspectives being thrown into the mix, but I’ve noticed a lot more empathy about gendered issues lately, which is nice to see.
As far as whether you risk your account for only wanting cis women, probably depends heavily on the instance. A shocking amount of the time people use preference as a cover for bigotry, so I wouldn’t be surprised if some mods are heavy on the trigger finger when it comes to that. Not that there’s not legit reasons to not want to date trans women. We can’t provide biological children and a large portion of us have no desire to “fully” transition, which are both reasonable reasons to not want to be with a trans woman (and of course that’s not an exhaustive list of every valid reason.) It’s just often people who say that mean they don’t view trans women as actual women and don’t want to date them because they’re “not gay.”
You are correct that in most environments, it is the other way around. In most places, women wanting tall men is considered normal and acceptable, but men having any preference at all is not. My point was not about how things are in society as a whole, but how things are on the larger Lemmy instances. However, even that seems to have rapidly changed since I made this comment. There was a thread about men’s issues I saw recently that didn’t devolve into “this is why women are awful” and actually stayed on topic, and that was really nice to see.
I used to be a MRA until Trump happened and the gender loyalism just got too much to handle. I can’t put up with gender jingoism (“my gender, right or wrong”) nonsense from either side. I had to part ways for good when they started saying the 19th should be revoked. “This is why wo/men are awful” is basically saying one sucks at vetting people without actually saying one sucks at vetting people.
As for women wanting tall men, or men not wanting fat women for that matter, the ramifications of said preference leaves a lot of men and women out in the cold, but what can you do? Freedom to choose who you want to be intimate with is sancrosanct. Depressing (I got a 12 year old son aging into this shithole situation) but can’t be fixed because it isn’t biology, it goes way deeper than that, it’s spiritual. What can and must be fixed, though, is the shaming: shit like “Fat shaming month” or women walking up in bars using measuring tape to see a guy’s actual height. The “fat women / short men kill yourselves” shit that sometimes flourishes unchecked in social media before admins step in and nix it long after it has hit a ton of eyeballs.
There is a prevalent culture of shaming someone for what they can’t help or can’t easily help and then acting like they are the problem when you cause them to have insecurities related to that. Full scale industrialized cultural-level gaslighting without apology. We need to end that… but how? It’s like it’s also part of our spiritual zeitgeist. I mean some of us are aware and awake, but overall? Might as well say everyone stop being human. But it’s also spiritually embedded for those who are awake to refuse to stop fighting the good fight. That windmill will see no peace from my lance.
As far as whether you risk your account for only wanting cis women, probably depends heavily on the instance. A shocking amount of the time people use preference as a cover for bigotry, so I wouldn’t be surprised if some mods are heavy on the trigger finger when it comes to that. Not that there’s not legit reasons to not want to date trans women. We can’t provide biological children and a large portion of us have no desire to “fully” transition, which are both reasonable reasons to not want to be with a trans woman (and of course that’s not an exhaustive list of every valid reason.) It’s just often people who say that mean they don’t view trans women as actual women and don’t want to date them because they’re “not gay.”
I have a special pile of beef for the whole “you’re dating a trans woman hahahaha you suck” mentality. Mods and admins being trigger happy af about trans issues is an affront, but so is that. I’m buying plenty of lances for tilting against that windmill, too. Break one, I come back with another…
The major one I’ve noticed is putting down women for having a preference on height or even dick size, but men are allowed to only want big boobs or petite women because it’s “a natural expression of human sexuality.”
That’s not the way I remember it. I remember being told that men having or expressing physical preferences in women was a terrible thing to do, being called a sexist, shallow pig, etc. This has been a female talking point basically my entire life. Then I remember being rejected for being 5’7". You know how we live in a world with 5 websites, each one is full of pictures of the other 4? I think I saw a Facebook post of a Tweet on Reddit that said [woman]: Grey sweatpants are for men with DICK, not men with peepee. [man]: But if I said tight jeans are for girls with ass, not long backs, I’d be the asshole.
I find that level of sheer hypocrisy is pretty effective at eroding my capacity for empathy.
Want another example? How about this cycle:
How dare men rely on only their romantic partners for emotional support. Men should support each other goddess dammit!
Men create spaces to gather and share activities.
– If activity is not socially acceptable, I’ll use the example of tabletop gaming in the 80’s and 90’s: “EWW look at the nerds and their pathetic nerd shit! Get lost, losers!”
– If activity is or becomes socially acceptable, and especially if it starts building money or prestige, I’ll use the example of video games in the 2000’s and 2010’s: “This environment isn’t suitable for women! I demand you change it to accommodate my needs and tastes.”
Why the fuck don’t men make and keep friendships with other men? I just don’t fucking get it.
And for some reason they expect me to automatically give a damn when the Republicans take their rights away?
Women are very vocal about not being on my side. So guess what? I’m not on theirs. Gasp.
If you feel unwelcome on Lemmy just for being a woman, as far as I’m concerned you can go somewhere else.
Your concerns for a lot of your life experiences are completely valid, but when you make the jump from “a lot of women have been assholes to me” to “women are assholes”, you fall into the same pitfall people are criticizing in this thread. There are a lot of women who are assholes. There are a lot of men who are assholes. Let’s criticize those behaviors, and make society a little bit better insofar we’re able to, rather than join their ranks.
You’re talking about the most shallow, vapid women out there. The women i’ve met have generally never talked like that. So no, you don’t get a pass to hate on women just because you saw some FB memes that hurt your fee fees…
Everyone is shallow, that’s not exclusive to any gender. Some people are shitty, others can have hard-line views due to experienced trauma. Doesn’t mean you should generalize, men and women are not monoliths. Just trying to understand the lived experience of the other side goes a long way.
I find that level of sheer hypocrisy is pretty effective at eroding my capacity for empathy.
Jesus Christ, dude. Learn some reading comprehension.
Judging by how the votes in this thread are going, my lived experience isn’t worth considering, so I now have no intention of considering anyone else’s. Fuck empathy. It’s not worth trying.
And for some reason they expect me to automatically give a damn when the Republicans take their rights away?
I give a damn about Republican douchebaggery because I’m not like those kinds of people, I don’t want to be a monster like them. I want to be able to look in the mirror and see someone who’s better than that. How women react will never affect me acting on my morals, they don’t control me.
I thought the last one was just conservatives making stuff up until I joined Lemmy.
Don’t get me wrong, the woman in the tweet is awful, especially the part about hating men who dare to have emotions, but I’m responding purely to the last thing on this list.
A lot of Lemmy users seem to think all they need to do to be immune to misogyny is to be leftist. It’s just been getting real tiring for me browsing this site seeing men be praised for things they at the same time put women down for. Not that men shouldn’t be praised for these things, but the double standard here is immense.
The major one I’ve noticed is putting down women for having a preference on height or even dick size, but men are allowed to only want big boobs or petite women because it’s “a natural expression of human sexuality.”
There’s also that I’ve seen several times men on here complaining when women are given safe spaces and resources specifically for them, like job fairs and such, and the comments being filled with how it should have been open to men as well because not doing so is sexist, meanwhile being totally ok and even ecstatic when a resource is opened specifically for men.
Like, I’m trans. I’ve lived on the other side of the coin. I’m glad men around here have a safe space to display their frustrations and discuss men’s issues that in most places you’d be crucified for even mentioning. I just wish this could be a safe space for both genders, not just the one who holds the majority. There are a lot of times I feel straight up unwelcome on Lemmy simply because I’m a women.
My 2c on this, I wish people would understand that a lot of women have similar struggles, same for men, and having spaces for those experiences to be shared with people who understand is really important.
I think the issue is it feels pretty othering when I’ve had experiences similar and feel like I’m not allowed to share them (without a lot of angry stares) because I’m not the correct gender.
I know there have been cases of women’s spaces being taken less seriously, but I don’t remember any specifics. Do you have any examples that come to mind?
It’d take me ages to find the post, but a while back, there was a post about a job fair for women getting overrun by a tidal wave of men. The comments were filled with people trying to justify it, such as saying that it was illegal and sexist to host a job fair for women only, and people even the slightest bit upset that a job fair for women was overrun by men abusing the legal loophole that they technically couldn’t be kicked out got down voted way to the bottom of the thread.
I found the post https://lemmy.world/post/6206801 and here https://kbin.social/m/[email protected]/t/508848 Yeah I guess you have to see it firsthand. I’ve heard tons of comments like “women just aren’t built for STEM” etc which these events are trying to show is wrong. It is probably a little unfair to the individual but good for society as a whole when talented women don’t see a field is 90% men and decide it’s not worth dealing with the boys club.
I do wanna point out, the most upvoted comments seem to have the same sentiment of this actually is important and a good thing to have for women. Definitely quite a few with a high score that say the opposite though…
That is the post I was talking about. I did forget about the few higher pro-woman comments. I guess I tend to remember the bad more than the good.
Still unpleasant how many people around here are completely ok with stuff like that though, but I suppose it’s worth focusing on the positive.
Comments like that are utter trash. Only an incel believes in that BS. It’s as if they never knew that one of, if not the first programmers, was Ada Lovelace.
That wasn’t a loophole, what that event was doing was open and naked gender discrimination and their ban on men was legally unenforceable. The law was on their side. What women should do in retaliation is bum rush those men’s clubs where all the power decisions are made by the top 1% of men. Fun fact the dean of my uni’s computer science dept was a woman, and decades later it still is. THEY have a crucial role in recruiting women students, it begins at the start of the pipeline.
What tweet are you reading?
I hope it’s not rude that I checked your profile and saw your explanation. I can see how I might have misinterpreted that. The way I interpreted the “sensitive men” and “emotional labor” part was as reinforcing the toxic masculine stereotype that men are supposed to just “man up” and not show emotion. Unfortunately, that’s an aspect of toxic masculinity upheld by women just as much as men.
I see men being constantly shamed and catching blowback for those preferences. I mean we can’t hope to succeed in shaming women into wanting short men or poor men, etc. but shouldn’t the same rule apply to men? More insane is that wanting a tall man is more “legitimate” than wanting big boobs or athletic build in women. The rules are constantly altered to justify all women’s preferences and demonize men’s.
Also as a man you can be banned from Reddit not for saying “no trans woman” but just for saying “I want a cis woman”. Feminist subreddits will go for your head, too. (Don’t get me wrong if one of my kids is dating a trans person I will support them totally also.) I’ve gotten the vibe that you risk your account here over that, too.
You are correct that in most environments, it is the other way around. In most places, women wanting tall men is considered normal and acceptable, but men having any preference at all is not. My point was not about how things are in society as a whole, but how things are on the larger Lemmy instances. However, even that seems to have rapidly changed since I made this comment. There was a thread about men’s issues I saw recently that didn’t devolve into “this is why women are awful” and actually stayed on topic, and that was really nice to see.
What I was frustrated about was that there was no space where both men’s and women’s preferences were respected, and also not resorting to body shaming when people do not meet those preferences. Lemmy is primarily dominated by men, which naturally makes it easier to talk about men’s issues without being shamed for it, but it did lead, for a while, to women’s issues not only being overlooked, but also often being intentionally ignored or outright shamed, mostly because men could not understand these issues they’d never experienced, so they didn’t feel as real (which is largely the same reason women often have trouble respecting men’s issues.)
I’m guessing it has to do with Lemmy’s population finally growing again and new perspectives being thrown into the mix, but I’ve noticed a lot more empathy about gendered issues lately, which is nice to see.
As far as whether you risk your account for only wanting cis women, probably depends heavily on the instance. A shocking amount of the time people use preference as a cover for bigotry, so I wouldn’t be surprised if some mods are heavy on the trigger finger when it comes to that. Not that there’s not legit reasons to not want to date trans women. We can’t provide biological children and a large portion of us have no desire to “fully” transition, which are both reasonable reasons to not want to be with a trans woman (and of course that’s not an exhaustive list of every valid reason.) It’s just often people who say that mean they don’t view trans women as actual women and don’t want to date them because they’re “not gay.”
I used to be a MRA until Trump happened and the gender loyalism just got too much to handle. I can’t put up with gender jingoism (“my gender, right or wrong”) nonsense from either side. I had to part ways for good when they started saying the 19th should be revoked. “This is why wo/men are awful” is basically saying one sucks at vetting people without actually saying one sucks at vetting people.
As for women wanting tall men, or men not wanting fat women for that matter, the ramifications of said preference leaves a lot of men and women out in the cold, but what can you do? Freedom to choose who you want to be intimate with is sancrosanct. Depressing (I got a 12 year old son aging into this shithole situation) but can’t be fixed because it isn’t biology, it goes way deeper than that, it’s spiritual. What can and must be fixed, though, is the shaming: shit like “Fat shaming month” or women walking up in bars using measuring tape to see a guy’s actual height. The “fat women / short men kill yourselves” shit that sometimes flourishes unchecked in social media before admins step in and nix it long after it has hit a ton of eyeballs.
There is a prevalent culture of shaming someone for what they can’t help or can’t easily help and then acting like they are the problem when you cause them to have insecurities related to that. Full scale industrialized cultural-level gaslighting without apology. We need to end that… but how? It’s like it’s also part of our spiritual zeitgeist. I mean some of us are aware and awake, but overall? Might as well say everyone stop being human. But it’s also spiritually embedded for those who are awake to refuse to stop fighting the good fight. That windmill will see no peace from my lance.
I have a special pile of beef for the whole “you’re dating a trans woman hahahaha you suck” mentality. Mods and admins being trigger happy af about trans issues is an affront, but so is that. I’m buying plenty of lances for tilting against that windmill, too. Break one, I come back with another…
That’s not the way I remember it. I remember being told that men having or expressing physical preferences in women was a terrible thing to do, being called a sexist, shallow pig, etc. This has been a female talking point basically my entire life. Then I remember being rejected for being 5’7". You know how we live in a world with 5 websites, each one is full of pictures of the other 4? I think I saw a Facebook post of a Tweet on Reddit that said [woman]: Grey sweatpants are for men with DICK, not men with peepee. [man]: But if I said tight jeans are for girls with ass, not long backs, I’d be the asshole.
I find that level of sheer hypocrisy is pretty effective at eroding my capacity for empathy.
Want another example? How about this cycle:
And for some reason they expect me to automatically give a damn when the Republicans take their rights away?
Women are very vocal about not being on my side. So guess what? I’m not on theirs. Gasp.
If you feel unwelcome on Lemmy just for being a woman, as far as I’m concerned you can go somewhere else.
Your concerns for a lot of your life experiences are completely valid, but when you make the jump from “a lot of women have been assholes to me” to “women are assholes”, you fall into the same pitfall people are criticizing in this thread. There are a lot of women who are assholes. There are a lot of men who are assholes. Let’s criticize those behaviors, and make society a little bit better insofar we’re able to, rather than join their ranks.
Based response.
You’re talking about the most shallow, vapid women out there. The women i’ve met have generally never talked like that. So no, you don’t get a pass to hate on women just because you saw some FB memes that hurt your fee fees…
Removed by mod
They didn’t say those weren’t true women, this is not how no true scotsman works
Jesus Christ, dude. Learn some empathy
Everyone is shallow, that’s not exclusive to any gender. Some people are shitty, others can have hard-line views due to experienced trauma. Doesn’t mean you should generalize, men and women are not monoliths. Just trying to understand the lived experience of the other side goes a long way.
Jesus Christ, dude. Learn some reading comprehension.
Judging by how the votes in this thread are going, my lived experience isn’t worth considering, so I now have no intention of considering anyone else’s. Fuck empathy. It’s not worth trying.
Oh grow up, what are you? An angsty teenager?
Life isn’t that hard.
I give a damn about Republican douchebaggery because I’m not like those kinds of people, I don’t want to be a monster like them. I want to be able to look in the mirror and see someone who’s better than that. How women react will never affect me acting on my morals, they don’t control me.