As negotiations get underway at COP28, we compiled a list of the leading research documenting the connection between meat and greenhouse gas emissions.
The biggest deterrent for me ever switching to being a vegetarian/vegan is…
Well, vegans.
If they weren’t so god-awful arrogant, I’d consider it, but I would never want anyone to associate me with that type of behavior. And there’s been several times where I was prepared to make the switch. In the end, the consideration of of being linked to such a hateful culture was just too much.
I’d imagine a lot of people feel the same way about Christianity- and if I were more clever then I am, if probable be able to spot the irony in this.
And yet you’re here because you hate something, mired in a culture of expats from that thing, talking this trash about somebody else; at least vegans have real reasons for it, such as data like OPs. (no i am not vegan.) Your only stated reason is your dislike of what amounts to morality.
Spotted your irony for you.
Maybe stop spewing shit about strawmen? You’re no better a monkey than anyone else. I guess you shouldn’t be shamed for at least trying, but that’s all the vegans are doing. They’re just trying harder than you. (with, not to put too fine a point on it, some success.) Perhaps you should try forgiving them that. Maybe even make a decision bigger than “nah, i can’t” from deep down in those cojones you probably have, males being 51% of the population.
I rest my case. Because whatever point you were trying to make, was lost within all the smug insults. I honestly said something that I feel to be true. From experience.
And you come in with the obnoxious arrogance I was taking about.
What exactly am I doing? It’s no secret that vegans have a reputation for being arrogant an obnoxious. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to avoid the stigma that follows such a thing.
I’m being honest about an opinion I have based on a real-world observation.
You’re just here to argue. I’m going to block you now as I don’t exercise the futility of pointless debate.
Maybe we have vastly different experience and takes on the loud minority of vegans.
Just like anything that can define people, there are bad apples. You probably see “those vegans” all the time. They might be arrogant or might not fact-check some of their claims, doesn’t mean they’re wrong on the overall message. They might have some cult mentality, but I see it as a flaw of individuals. They’ll still be obnoxious with whatever label they want to shove to others face, vegan or not.
From there, you have the option to just be vegan and not flaunting how morally superior you are or berate someone else for their lifestyle publicly. It’s just a descriptor of your choice in what you don’t consume (animal products), not some kind of monolith. The vegans who just calmly eating their vegan food without making a fuss flew under your radar.
Considering you said that the biggest deterrents are vegans, I assume you agree with the main points of veganism. IMO, it is a different matter than Christianity because most religion wholly depends on the faith of its followers that their god is the real one, the belief in the absence of strong evidence. The researches of the pro and cons surrounding veganism are still infantile and there are undeniable drawback from going full vegan. But so far, many compelling research say that reducing red meat consumption is good for the environment, which is in dire condition. So veganism is still a moral choice to make, especially if you also think killing animals are immoral.
I mean… Most people don’t really care what you eat most of the time, so you could switch (or mostly switch or whatever) without telling anybody. Vegan is a little harder than vegetarian if you’re going out with people, but if you really don’t want to say you’re vegan you could always suggest a place that works for you or just bite the bullet that one time (if you want to avoid eating meat but won’t because you don’t want to be associated with vegans, it’s probably still better to go meatless most of the time, and sacrifice the diet whenever is socially convenient for you). To be clear, I’m not trying to preach to you (I’m not vegan, but I am vegetarian, if that’s relevant context). It’s your diet, not mine… But if it’s something you legitimately do want to do on some level there’s a lot of flexibility in how you can make it work for you!
It’s nearly impossible for it not to come up. Dinner over friends houses? Need to inform of diet. Dining out? Ordering from the vegan menu. Going to wedding? Advance choosing vegan meal… these are just a few examples.
I wouldn’t want anyone knowing I was a vegan. Vegans make it shameful to have to admit.
Just do it opportunistically. You don’t have to explain it to anyone, and you can make the choice whenever it’s available and comfortable. You don’t have to be an absolutist about your diet. Any change you make for the better, even if it’s just at home or when you’re alone, is enough to make some difference.
In the end, I suppose, just do what you feel good about.
I get what you’re saying. And I appreciate the advice, but it’s not about the explanation. It’s about having to admit it. There’s a HUGE stigma associated with veganism. And it would be exhausting to always have to say, “I’m a vegan, but a GOOD ONE!”
I’m not sure there’s quite as much stigma as you think. I definitely agree that a lot of people are like “ugh, vegans” on the internet, but in my experience nobody really cares in real life as long as you don’t bother them. You might get a “well I can’t live without my bacon” comment or whatever, but that’s pretty much the extent of it… Especially if you’re flexible and willing to eat vegetarian or eat meat on the occasion that you do go out… Nobody is going to care. Hell, you can just tell them you’re avoiding meat to lower your blood pressure or something. It’s cool!
I’ve been in groups of people with vegans and nobody really cares… in my experience usually the vegans are chill and maybe somebody else pokes a little fun at the vegans, but that’s kind of the extent of it, despite what it sounds like from online discourse. Maybe people in your friend groups talk shit about vegans and you’re scared of that too, and that’s fair, but for the most part I think people just like the easy punching bag and just don’t really know anybody in the group they’re talking shit about… and when they do it’s usually just “oh, that guy is fine, actually, wouldn’t have thunk.”
Anyway, I’m not sure if you’re actually interested in changing your diet at all, but I think if you are you shouldn’t let the vegans convince you not to. If it’s something you want to do, do it :). Even if it’s not something you want to do all of the time it can kind of be fun to mix up meals sometimes and sometimes it’s nice to not have so many choices at a restaurant, and you might even discover something you like that you wouldn’t have tried before… At any rate, don’t be so afraid of the vegans, they can’t hurt you, they have low iron :).
I wouldn’t want to be associated with vegans, either, tbh.
But if someone shows interest or disdain regarding my eating habits, I tell 'em my take. If they like it, cool. If they scorn me, they can fuck right off.
I’m not vegan, and don’t really intend to be. But I strongly prefer to eat humanely raised and killed meat. That’s pretty uncommon and expensive, so I often just skip meat.
…if someone’s interested, I’ll tell them about how I kill and eat animals, and why, as well as more about why I avoid most commercial meats.
But yeah, social stigma. If you want to make change, first you’ve got to sort out your own feelings on that. Really, that’s true for any change, not just socially stigmatized ones.
Edit: consider this fun tidbit. Since Veganism is primarily about consent and how an animal can’t give it, the only truly vegan meats are vat meats… …or other humans (if they consent and aren’t under duress).
If you find it that embarrassing, then don’t eat vegan at those places or events. You don’t have to be perfect, and if you’d do it if it weren’t for those pesky vegans, why not?
This is not the reason you aren’t a vegan. Nobody eats meat because they care what people associate them with, it’s for convenience, taste, and tradition. I’ve cut down drastically on meat and nobody has mentioned it in the slightest, because nobody cares.
All this is is a dig at vegans who are doing far more individually than you or I to try to salvage this planet and reduce the absolutely inhumane conditions animals are subject to just so you and I can have a cheeseburger.
You’re just virtue signaling. Or, anti-virtue signaling. Vice-signaling? Idk.
The biggest deterrent for me ever switching to being a vegetarian/vegan is…
Well, vegans.
If they weren’t so god-awful arrogant, I’d consider it, but I would never want anyone to associate me with that type of behavior. And there’s been several times where I was prepared to make the switch. In the end, the consideration of of being linked to such a hateful culture was just too much.
I’d imagine a lot of people feel the same way about Christianity- and if I were more clever then I am, if probable be able to spot the irony in this.
And yet you’re here because you hate something, mired in a culture of expats from that thing, talking this trash about somebody else; at least vegans have real reasons for it, such as data like OPs. (no i am not vegan.) Your only stated reason is your dislike of what amounts to morality.
Spotted your irony for you.
Maybe stop spewing shit about strawmen? You’re no better a monkey than anyone else. I guess you shouldn’t be shamed for at least trying, but that’s all the vegans are doing. They’re just trying harder than you. (with, not to put too fine a point on it, some success.) Perhaps you should try forgiving them that. Maybe even make a decision bigger than “nah, i can’t” from deep down in those cojones you probably have, males being 51% of the population.
I rest my case. Because whatever point you were trying to make, was lost within all the smug insults. I honestly said something that I feel to be true. From experience.
And you come in with the obnoxious arrogance I was taking about.
Congrats.
And that’s why you can’t see the irony! Cuz you’re doing it too, you did it in your first post, then I did it, and now you’re doing it here.
Come back and reread this convo in six months, you’ll see, I promise.
edit: ps - they weren’t insults. Put your ego aside, it’s the monkeymind. You think I know you or some shit?
What exactly am I doing? It’s no secret that vegans have a reputation for being arrogant an obnoxious. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to avoid the stigma that follows such a thing.
I’m being honest about an opinion I have based on a real-world observation.
You’re just here to argue. I’m going to block you now as I don’t exercise the futility of pointless debate.
Maybe we have vastly different experience and takes on the loud minority of vegans.
Just like anything that can define people, there are bad apples. You probably see “those vegans” all the time. They might be arrogant or might not fact-check some of their claims, doesn’t mean they’re wrong on the overall message. They might have some cult mentality, but I see it as a flaw of individuals. They’ll still be obnoxious with whatever label they want to shove to others face, vegan or not.
From there, you have the option to just be vegan and not flaunting how morally superior you are or berate someone else for their lifestyle publicly. It’s just a descriptor of your choice in what you don’t consume (animal products), not some kind of monolith. The vegans who just calmly eating their vegan food without making a fuss flew under your radar.
Considering you said that the biggest deterrents are vegans, I assume you agree with the main points of veganism. IMO, it is a different matter than Christianity because most religion wholly depends on the faith of its followers that their god is the real one, the belief in the absence of strong evidence. The researches of the pro and cons surrounding veganism are still infantile and there are undeniable drawback from going full vegan. But so far, many compelling research say that reducing red meat consumption is good for the environment, which is in dire condition. So veganism is still a moral choice to make, especially if you also think killing animals are immoral.
Disclaimer: I’m not a vegan.
he says as he huffs and puffs
🙄
I mean… Most people don’t really care what you eat most of the time, so you could switch (or mostly switch or whatever) without telling anybody. Vegan is a little harder than vegetarian if you’re going out with people, but if you really don’t want to say you’re vegan you could always suggest a place that works for you or just bite the bullet that one time (if you want to avoid eating meat but won’t because you don’t want to be associated with vegans, it’s probably still better to go meatless most of the time, and sacrifice the diet whenever is socially convenient for you). To be clear, I’m not trying to preach to you (I’m not vegan, but I am vegetarian, if that’s relevant context). It’s your diet, not mine… But if it’s something you legitimately do want to do on some level there’s a lot of flexibility in how you can make it work for you!
It’s nearly impossible for it not to come up. Dinner over friends houses? Need to inform of diet. Dining out? Ordering from the vegan menu. Going to wedding? Advance choosing vegan meal… these are just a few examples.
I wouldn’t want anyone knowing I was a vegan. Vegans make it shameful to have to admit.
Just do it opportunistically. You don’t have to explain it to anyone, and you can make the choice whenever it’s available and comfortable. You don’t have to be an absolutist about your diet. Any change you make for the better, even if it’s just at home or when you’re alone, is enough to make some difference.
In the end, I suppose, just do what you feel good about.
I get what you’re saying. And I appreciate the advice, but it’s not about the explanation. It’s about having to admit it. There’s a HUGE stigma associated with veganism. And it would be exhausting to always have to say, “I’m a vegan, but a GOOD ONE!”
I’m not sure there’s quite as much stigma as you think. I definitely agree that a lot of people are like “ugh, vegans” on the internet, but in my experience nobody really cares in real life as long as you don’t bother them. You might get a “well I can’t live without my bacon” comment or whatever, but that’s pretty much the extent of it… Especially if you’re flexible and willing to eat vegetarian or eat meat on the occasion that you do go out… Nobody is going to care. Hell, you can just tell them you’re avoiding meat to lower your blood pressure or something. It’s cool!
I’ve been in groups of people with vegans and nobody really cares… in my experience usually the vegans are chill and maybe somebody else pokes a little fun at the vegans, but that’s kind of the extent of it, despite what it sounds like from online discourse. Maybe people in your friend groups talk shit about vegans and you’re scared of that too, and that’s fair, but for the most part I think people just like the easy punching bag and just don’t really know anybody in the group they’re talking shit about… and when they do it’s usually just “oh, that guy is fine, actually, wouldn’t have thunk.”
Anyway, I’m not sure if you’re actually interested in changing your diet at all, but I think if you are you shouldn’t let the vegans convince you not to. If it’s something you want to do, do it :). Even if it’s not something you want to do all of the time it can kind of be fun to mix up meals sometimes and sometimes it’s nice to not have so many choices at a restaurant, and you might even discover something you like that you wouldn’t have tried before… At any rate, don’t be so afraid of the vegans, they can’t hurt you, they have low iron :).
I wouldn’t want to be associated with vegans, either, tbh. But if someone shows interest or disdain regarding my eating habits, I tell 'em my take. If they like it, cool. If they scorn me, they can fuck right off.
I’m not vegan, and don’t really intend to be. But I strongly prefer to eat humanely raised and killed meat. That’s pretty uncommon and expensive, so I often just skip meat.
…if someone’s interested, I’ll tell them about how I kill and eat animals, and why, as well as more about why I avoid most commercial meats.
But yeah, social stigma. If you want to make change, first you’ve got to sort out your own feelings on that. Really, that’s true for any change, not just socially stigmatized ones.
Edit: consider this fun tidbit. Since Veganism is primarily about consent and how an animal can’t give it, the only truly vegan meats are vat meats… …or other humans (if they consent and aren’t under duress).
Well said. And thanks.
Enjoy your travels.
If you find it that embarrassing, then don’t eat vegan at those places or events. You don’t have to be perfect, and if you’d do it if it weren’t for those pesky vegans, why not?
Thanks for helping prove my point.
Is my attitude what’s pushing you to eat meat?
i was just being mean here. the other thread was better. disregard
This is not the reason you aren’t a vegan. Nobody eats meat because they care what people associate them with, it’s for convenience, taste, and tradition. I’ve cut down drastically on meat and nobody has mentioned it in the slightest, because nobody cares.
All this is is a dig at vegans who are doing far more individually than you or I to try to salvage this planet and reduce the absolutely inhumane conditions animals are subject to just so you and I can have a cheeseburger.
You’re just virtue signaling. Or, anti-virtue signaling. Vice-signaling? Idk.