Personally I think that azerty was meant made by drunk students trying to troll people but it somehow caught on.
- Hey, qwerty is kinda bad… You think we could try to make one that’s even worse to mock it?
- Oooh that’d be hilarious! Let’s make a French version of qwerty but a lot worse!
- I know, lets put dead keys for all accents except for the
accent aigu
so that when you need it on an uppercase letter you CAN’T type it! - Ahah good one! Let’s also not add anyway to type an uppercase cedilla! Imagine, a French keyboard that can’t type uppercase
é
andç
! - And what if we rearrange all the punctuation and symbols so that the open and closed parenthesis are no longer next to each other? It’d be sooo funny!
- Right right! Let’s do it too for the brackets and curly braces too!
- Good one! How about we don’t add guillemets which are used in French instead of english double quotes, so that people will be forced to type double quotes and their advanced text editors will have to automatically replace them by guillemets so that the text uses correct punctuation for French?
- That’s so sneaky! Let’s also add
§
so you can cite your sources with the correct paragraph symbol, but not use real quotations marks for the quotes! - What else would be really stupid?
- Let’s use one key for a random greek letter!
- What?
- You know, like
α
andβ
? - Ermm… okay… which one?
α
orβ
? - Neither, people might actually use those once every 2 years. Let’s just pick one at random!
µ
it is! Has anyone even seen that letter used in a French text?- Nope, never, so it’s perfect!
- How about also adding
¤
? - What the hell is
¤
? - I haven’t the faintest clue! And neither do you or most people! That why it’s funny!
- Sure, why not, let’s cram pointless characters and not add actually useful ones like guillemets! Any other ideas?
- Let’s put the hyphen on the one most unreachable key!
- Oh that’s a good one!
- I got better! Let’s put the period on the same key as the semicolon, but with the semicolon as the default character, and periods will be Shift+semicolon! That way we can say that it’s canonically why French phases are long-winded: it’s easier to type a comma or semicolon than a period!
- Man you’re hilarious!
When I was still on Windows I put qwerty as my keyboard layout and used the Alt+number shortcuts for accents because that was less painful than using azerty… Those shortcuts didn’t work anymore when I switched to linux so I had to find a real solution, which ended up being a colemak base which I modified to add accented letters. I don’t like bepo, it moves z x c v and I like them being in the same place as in qwerty for the shortcuts I’m used to, and I didn’t know qwerty-fr existed at the time 😅
Do you have worse for your language?
Your story reminds me of diving a French car for the first time. No knob or lever can be found in the usual spaces and in the end you always end up giving a turn signal when you try to use the windscreen wiper.
I am using the German QWERTZ most of the time and found the layout rather reasonable. I once tried to learn the neo layout which had the most used letters on the middle row, but you really only can use that at home so I stopped after a week or two as it did not really seemed worth the effort.
Atomic Frontier on YouTube trained a machine learning model on his prior emails, assignments, etc., and had it determine his personal worst keyboard layout. He posted the code on GitHub for others to do the same.
Oh wow that’s one unhinged layout!
At some point, uppercase letters were written without accent in French. I’m unsure where this comes from, but I heard this was due to the limitations of printing presses, and then typewriters kept the convention.
In any case, the style is quite out of fashion today, but I know people who still write (handwriting and typing) without using accented uppercase letters.
Writing unaccented uppercase? TO THE STAAAAAAKE!
The heretics must burn 🔥 🔥 🔥
(I might possibly need therapy to get over French schools teachings about what constitutes “correct French”)
Yeah, that’s how I was taught in school in Canada in the 1980s, although no one ever explained why. It always did seem odd.
I actually use Coleman for work. It feels so much nicer to type on vs qwerty. It reduces same finger movement (like e & d on qwerty) and enables common synergies, like ie/ei, ne/en, sr/rs, ar, st/ts, etc. It was also easy to switch to vs other layouts like Dvorak because it keeps important hotkeys where they should be, like ctrl+a/q/z/x/c/v so you don’t accidentally close a program while trying to select all.
I still use QWERTY often for my home PC because I play games and type at the same time and don’t want to change every hot key for every game.
Its pretty funny how the Spain Spanish keyboard has almost every one of these same keys yet isn’t insane
At least with Azerty, you don’t run into it in the wild.
The worst layout is alphabetical, because sometimes you are forced to use it.
Right, that reminds me that I’m old enough to remember Minitels with alphabetical keyboards…
Some label makers use an alphabetical keyboard. It’s frustrating.
Wait really that’s still a thing? 💀
Texas instruments graphing calculators have them too.
In order for them to be allowed on exams, I ghink they’re required to have a non-QWERTY layout.
can confirm, it’s the worst
This isn’t really what you asked, but I feel the need to share my experience using an alternate layout.
I used to use the Dvorak layout - for several years, in fact, and I was pretty good with it. I switched back to Qwerty, because Dvorak just caused too many issues, especially at work, and any speed gains were lost in dealing with switching the layout for tech support and things like that. Sometimes they’d remote in and type, and it would translate their keypresses incorrectly.
Now I doubt they’d even let me switch the keyboard layout (a function they don’t expect people to need, so they lock it out to reduce the chance of someone accidentally triggering it).
Qwerty does the job, I guess.
Interesting, I wasn’t aware that could be an issue, thanks for mentioning it!
But I’m glad it’s qwerty you are stuck on, at least it is reasonably usable, even if it’s far from perfect.
I’m similar to you. Used Dvorak for quite a while but switched back to Qwerty. I never really had any speed gains but I definitly had a lot of comfort gains.
You should be able to use the Compose key on Linux for easy typing of accented characters. eg. Compose ’ e = é
I’m not sure what the Compose key is. Is it an additional modifier you need to define?
Some desktop environments set a default compose key, but you might have to set one manually. Common choices are the menu key or the right alt key if you don’t use it much.
Mostly it just defines a set of pretty standard and sensible combinations to add accents or other modifiers to existing characters, but there’s quite a bit you can do with it.
Oh so you would need a desktop environment to have a compose key 😢
But it’s nice to know that the option exists!
you can have compose in the linux console too. an actually ergonomic choice is caps lock i think, because really, what is caps lock even for…
Isn’t it a dark plot to make people go crazy by endlessly retyping a password when they accidentally press it without realizing?
If you don’t use a DE, it looks like there are ways to enable it in window managers as well. You’ll have to look up specific instructions for yours.
I took a look and it seems it’s possible :
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Xorg/Keyboard_configuration#Configuring_compose_key
I haven’t had the energy to read everything in details but I’ll give it a try when I do, thanks for the suggestion
Window managers are a component of a desktop environment.
Yes. You choose the compose key in your DE settings (usually right alt key), then you can press it and type compose sequences to insert unusual symbols or strings.
I hate AZERTY so much it hurts my brains
Czecho-Slovak QWERTZ is fine, but it annoys me that you have to guess whether a keyboard is set to QWERTY or QWERTZ. Z and Y are the only characters that are switched. I gave up as I frequently switch to English QWERTY; now I just use QWERTY for both languages.
That’s a weirdly specific change to make to QWERTY
Hungarian is also QWERTZ. We have a sound written ‘sz’ and another one written ‘zs’ so it would be hard on your pinky.
It happens to layouts. Some people add some small changes to make an alternate layout which makes more sense to them. For example, Colemak and Colemak-DH. DH only changes 3 keys, shifts 3, and swaps 2.
Try the Canadian French layout, it’s a much saner French layout IMO.
It focuses on communication, so I use it in combination with the US layout so I can type programming-related characters.
Canadian French for programming is great. You have everything you need right there. The only downside is no euro symbol. CMS is something else. It has potential but I find the keybinds less intuitive.
CMS is arguably worse than AZERTY. Or maybe l’m just too used to AZERTY…
French here, after having to buy a Canadian laptop I can confirm I didn’t go back to the french layout. Also the “english (Canada)” locale usually has sane regionalization options (like DD/MM date and distance in meters or kilometers, celsius temperature…) compared to the other English ones
Aren’t the
A
andQ
keys also at terrible positions?Good point I’d forgotten about that! We use
A
a lot andQ
almost never so obviously we need both letters switched around so that the pinkie is on the letterQ
andA
is harder to reach 😂
Those parentheses and brackets are unhinged.
Not really, but I switched from Qwerty to Workman years ago, though I can live with Qwerty if I have to when it’s on someone else’s machine.
I use Workman because I found Colemak rather hard to learn, mostly because of the position of S being one over from where it was on Qwerty.