The German state of Schleswig-Holstein is making waves with its ambitious plan to ditch Microsoft Office, Exchange, and Windows in favor of Open Source alternatives. This bold move has significant implications for digital sovereignty, public procurement, and the future of the European digital ecosystem. The EuroStack Project unpacks the plan and its broader implications.
they will save 188,000 € on Microsoft license fees per year
That sounds like a ridiculously lowballed amount. Also, working with open source tools should increase productivity and decrease brainrot among workers in the public sector. Using Microshit kills brain cells. Not even joking, I actually think it makes users fucking dumb.
I hate microsoft as much as the next guy but their office suite is best in class. Its far better funded which makes it so surprising that the other suites arent to far behind. I think with proper funding other suites can get to a point where it makes sense to switch to them.
Yeah thats what I was trying to add with my reply. Ms is only better because its had 1000x the funding. But even with that funding its not 1000x better its only slightly better. This is a perfect time to fund alternatives and take away Microsofts monopoly.
We’re on the same page. Sorry if I came off aggressive. These threads typically become immediate shit shows the second you bring up non favorable Linux points.
Is it? Almost every time I use it I end up hitting a bug or missing feature. Just last week I was trying to get Word in Office365 to keep some lines together. I followed the instructions from Microsoft’s help and it didn’t work. Last month I was trying to get “slide M of N” on the bottom of PowerPoint in Office365, but apparently getting the N is just not supported.
LibreOffice almost always works for me, far more often than Microsoft Office.
No. For $16 a month you get Windows + O365 + InTune + EntreID. That includes role based access to admin portals, as well as for SharePoint+ one drive. You get per object audit and logging access to protect IP, you can remotely disable and wipe stolen devices if needed.
None of that can be replicated in one product, the reality it’s 10 or so subsystems that need to be maintained. It’s labor intensive. Does it make sense for some companies or governments with scale to switch away? ABSOLUTELY!
Is this thread filled with a bunch of people that vastly underrate capabilities and ease of use because of a hatred of Microsoft and what they represent and an unwillingness to look at how the users and businesses actually feel and make decisions? ABSOLUTELY!
I think management and MSP experience in this thread is nil and I think probably nobody in here has ever actually worked at a directors level.
Trust me I have used Windows long enough to know what I am talking about. It has zero features that can’t be replaced with an overall net positive.
People who defend modern Microsoft products just suffer from Stockholm or Dunning Kruger syndrome
And I’m sure it’ll work be run 24/7 with no downtime and a support desk along with a fleet of junior devs and admins working for the low low price of 35k s year right?
I’m sure it’ll support everything we need for CMMC, most, iso, a gdpr right? No need to put key cloak in front of 40 apps to show horn in proper rbac and audit accounts. Again for $16 a month right?
You’re a windws user, not even administering accounts or hardware. Your lack of experience is showing and your doubling down on “I’ve used Windows so I know” reeks of shit you see of non experts talking out of their ass.
Unless you’ve been in a leadership role and done a yearly budget, you have no clue. Adults with experience are talking here and you’re just spiteful lolol
Sadly I took my claim from observation of the real world. And I wasn’t even talking about machine learning systems yet. Some teenagers and young adults nowadays are already walking zombies hooked to tiktok.
No idea where that number is from but at the start it’s just going to be getting rid of MS Office and Exchange, switch to FLOSS telephony, not getting rid of Windows. Licensing costs for 30k seats are certainly higher but you have to offset that with not getting any support from MS any more. Dataport will need a couple of in-house developers to resolve issues and work with upstream. Actual development, not tier 1 support and translating administrative instructions into templates.
Also for the state it’s not really about the money, but sovereignty. 188k are also peanuts in 18bn worth of state budget, that’s yearly maintenance for what 30km of state roads. Given that we currently don’t have any potholes we can afford it.
As to brainrot: Not really applicable. These are managed workplaces and not much will change on the end-user side.
Ah, okay - if Windows remains, they are not nearly exploiting the cost saving potential. That explains the low number.
I love software development, I hope they have such people as well. In terms of maintenance though, my (reasonably comolex) software is nearly maintenance free and much easier to operate. I believe that can be true for all custom developments, generic solutions are more complex by their nature of having more functions than needed in any specific use case.
Dataport is kinda hit and miss when it comes to developing. It was created by taking the small IT departments of different ministries, agencies, etc, of multiple states, and putting them all under a common roof. They did that because they realised that standard state administration structures and IT weren’t really compatible but on the flipside, they also funded a whole new organisation with people accustomed to those very structures, and as dataport is still a public law corporation the internal administration – think payroll and everything – will still be done by career state bureaucrats.
It’s a different kind of dysfunction than you see in the private sector but dysfunction nonetheless. OTOH working directly with FLOSS upstream will help: It’s not that (sufficiently large) FLOSS projects don’t have their own bureaucracy, and the bureaucrats that be on dataport’s side will respect that.
Regarding maintenance: Aside from hardware upgrades because they make sense (power consumption) or you want new features (latest addition: Graphics tablets to allow citizens to sign stuff without having to print things), there’s a constant churn in software requirements as new orders come in on what to do and how to do it. Just because you wrote perfect software doesn’t mean that parliament stops passing laws.
As far as usability is concerned: Dataport will also have to train people, and they actually have the funds to do usability studies and such. Much will also depend on the different agencies they’re working for, can’t fix an agency’s workflows for them, and that goes beyond mere IT. I guess a public-law consultancy does make sense but having a ministry for administrative affairs reeks of Sir Humphrey. I guess you could hide it by making it a subsidiary of the court of auditors.
That sounds like a ridiculously lowballed amount. Also, working with open source tools should increase productivity and decrease brainrot among workers in the public sector. Using Microshit kills brain cells. Not even joking, I actually think it makes users fucking dumb.
Y’all are delusional.
Office is fantastic and better than goggle as well any foss alternative.
I hate microsoft as much as the next guy but their office suite is best in class. Its far better funded which makes it so surprising that the other suites arent to far behind. I think with proper funding other suites can get to a point where it makes sense to switch to them.
It’s really not though. Most of what you can do with Office can be done with other tools, you just have to learn how to use them.
In libre office I can’t get copilot to turn my entire report to slop in 2 clicks.
Drives me crazy. Rather than talking about how MS got here and how to fix it you get this screeching.
Same reason Linux desktop will never be mainstream unless valve keeps pumping billions into the shit regular the users need and want.
Yeah thats what I was trying to add with my reply. Ms is only better because its had 1000x the funding. But even with that funding its not 1000x better its only slightly better. This is a perfect time to fund alternatives and take away Microsofts monopoly.
We’re on the same page. Sorry if I came off aggressive. These threads typically become immediate shit shows the second you bring up non favorable Linux points.
Is it? Almost every time I use it I end up hitting a bug or missing feature. Just last week I was trying to get Word in Office365 to keep some lines together. I followed the instructions from Microsoft’s help and it didn’t work. Last month I was trying to get “slide M of N” on the bottom of PowerPoint in Office365, but apparently getting the N is just not supported.
LibreOffice almost always works for me, far more often than Microsoft Office.
Look if you’re struggling with ms office in this day and age idk what to tell ya. You might be cooked.
Here, you dropped an /s
No. For $16 a month you get Windows + O365 + InTune + EntreID. That includes role based access to admin portals, as well as for SharePoint+ one drive. You get per object audit and logging access to protect IP, you can remotely disable and wipe stolen devices if needed.
None of that can be replicated in one product, the reality it’s 10 or so subsystems that need to be maintained. It’s labor intensive. Does it make sense for some companies or governments with scale to switch away? ABSOLUTELY!
Is this thread filled with a bunch of people that vastly underrate capabilities and ease of use because of a hatred of Microsoft and what they represent and an unwillingness to look at how the users and businesses actually feel and make decisions? ABSOLUTELY!
I think management and MSP experience in this thread is nil and I think probably nobody in here has ever actually worked at a directors level.
I agree with everything you said but it’s “Entra”, not “EntreID”
Trust me I have used Windows long enough to know what I am talking about. It has zero features that can’t be replaced with an overall net positive. People who defend modern Microsoft products just suffer from Stockholm or Dunning Kruger syndrome
And I’m sure it’ll work be run 24/7 with no downtime and a support desk along with a fleet of junior devs and admins working for the low low price of 35k s year right?
I’m sure it’ll support everything we need for CMMC, most, iso, a gdpr right? No need to put key cloak in front of 40 apps to show horn in proper rbac and audit accounts. Again for $16 a month right?
You’re a windws user, not even administering accounts or hardware. Your lack of experience is showing and your doubling down on “I’ve used Windows so I know” reeks of shit you see of non experts talking out of their ass.
Unless you’ve been in a leadership role and done a yearly budget, you have no clue. Adults with experience are talking here and you’re just spiteful lolol
Is This Anal?
Close but no cigar!
There are some striking studies about how use of LLMs impacts cognition. You’re not wrong.
Sadly I took my claim from observation of the real world. And I wasn’t even talking about machine learning systems yet. Some teenagers and young adults nowadays are already walking zombies hooked to tiktok.
I am a walking zombie hooked to Lemmy!
No idea where that number is from but at the start it’s just going to be getting rid of MS Office and Exchange, switch to FLOSS telephony, not getting rid of Windows. Licensing costs for 30k seats are certainly higher but you have to offset that with not getting any support from MS any more. Dataport will need a couple of in-house developers to resolve issues and work with upstream. Actual development, not tier 1 support and translating administrative instructions into templates.
Also for the state it’s not really about the money, but sovereignty. 188k are also peanuts in 18bn worth of state budget, that’s yearly maintenance for what 30km of state roads. Given that we currently don’t have any potholes we can afford it.
As to brainrot: Not really applicable. These are managed workplaces and not much will change on the end-user side.
Ah, okay - if Windows remains, they are not nearly exploiting the cost saving potential. That explains the low number.
I love software development, I hope they have such people as well. In terms of maintenance though, my (reasonably comolex) software is nearly maintenance free and much easier to operate. I believe that can be true for all custom developments, generic solutions are more complex by their nature of having more functions than needed in any specific use case.
Dataport is kinda hit and miss when it comes to developing. It was created by taking the small IT departments of different ministries, agencies, etc, of multiple states, and putting them all under a common roof. They did that because they realised that standard state administration structures and IT weren’t really compatible but on the flipside, they also funded a whole new organisation with people accustomed to those very structures, and as dataport is still a public law corporation the internal administration – think payroll and everything – will still be done by career state bureaucrats.
It’s a different kind of dysfunction than you see in the private sector but dysfunction nonetheless. OTOH working directly with FLOSS upstream will help: It’s not that (sufficiently large) FLOSS projects don’t have their own bureaucracy, and the bureaucrats that be on dataport’s side will respect that.
Regarding maintenance: Aside from hardware upgrades because they make sense (power consumption) or you want new features (latest addition: Graphics tablets to allow citizens to sign stuff without having to print things), there’s a constant churn in software requirements as new orders come in on what to do and how to do it. Just because you wrote perfect software doesn’t mean that parliament stops passing laws.
As far as usability is concerned: Dataport will also have to train people, and they actually have the funds to do usability studies and such. Much will also depend on the different agencies they’re working for, can’t fix an agency’s workflows for them, and that goes beyond mere IT. I guess a public-law consultancy does make sense but having a ministry for administrative affairs reeks of Sir Humphrey. I guess you could hide it by making it a subsidiary of the court of auditors.