I personally feel that the historical significance of a thing outweighing its own bloody history, and believe that keeping the thing around helps us to remember its evil history, which may help us prevent it from happening, again.
Ehh we gotta keep a few remnants around. Think, if none of these places existed, you’d get neo-nazis claiming shit like “slavery never existed, there is no evidence of such a thing, where are the buildings? Where are these so called “plantations”. Exactly, it never existed”.
Exactly, erasing these things threatens to erase history. Granted, this is a bad case to defend as a historical landmark of slavery, since it was being used as a venue and resort, and therefore glorifying a southern culture largelywholly made from the enslavement of Africans.
Where did I draw a line, I just don’t see it as something to cheer.
The state should have taken it as a landmark and kept it as a museum. The absence of visible history is the easiest way to try to forget history, people already argue that the antebellum South wasn’t as horrific as it actually was and you’re cheering on the absence evidence that exists without it. Ie. You’re cheering on slavery denialism via spoliation.
Like the Confederate statues? Nah. Tear it down. It doesn’t serve as a reminder to prevent. It serves as a monolithic idol for shitty people to rally around and mythologize.
I don’t advocate burning history altogether, but keeping shitty places and statues around for shitty people to glorify serves the exact opposite of preserving the history. It just gives them hope and ideas that the “old days” will come back around. Take a picture or something and put it in a museum, at most. And make the museum about the horrific acts and atrocities, not about preserving the history of the vile.
There’s a reason the Vietnam memorial is so iconic. It lists the soldier’s names, and it preserves their legacy as a reminder of pointless war. But it doesn’t glorify the war. Same for the ground zero memorial in NYC. It does not glorify the war in Afghanistan and Iraq, nor the atrocities that occured over there despite the reminder from the Vietnam war. It serves to remind of the lives of many that were taken.
The only reason I’m okay with the preservation of the Holocaust memorial locations is that the history of the people murdered there is on display. The scratches in the walls. Their glasses and belongings. The current political situation aside, people can go there and see the evil that occured as a somber reminder. Whether they are one of the peoples that those atrocities happened to or not.
Yet still, shitty people pose on the tracks for instagram, or go there for the evil itself, rather than that somber reminder.
A slave house, plantation, or Confederate statue isn’t a somber reminder. It’s simply there because they want glorify the shitty acts and want them to come back around. They want to remind people what they think the worth of their existence is. They want to deify their generals and create some type of mythology to their history. There’s nothing there for the people who were abused or murdered in those times. It only stands currently so people now can say they want to preserve “the history,” which is the history of the abusers and the murderers.
Regarding confederate statues, I believe the only place they should be… is in their cemeteries. They should remove them from public lands and place them in the cemeteries.
This plantation house was used as a resort, so that’s a little off putting, and glorifying the history instead of being a sobering reminder of atrocity. I would have rather it be given over to the local government and turned into a museum against slavery. But, even then with how much the south glorifies the confederacy, the state wouldn’t have done a good job showing the evils of plantations like this.
Agreed on the second part. I don’t understand why anyone would want to sleep in a place like that.
But I disagree on the first part. Should all be rubble, imo. Glorifying the traitors just set us up for the current situation since the plants that have grown are just as rotten as the root imo. The only reason the man got office is because he co-opted the movement that’s been in play for at least 60 years by the likes of turtle-lookin fuckbag McConnell. Remember the Tea Party a few years ago? All of this is a culmination of years of effort by the right wings to push out progressive ideals. Trump just took advantage of the hysteria and pushed the GOP old guard out and set him up as narcissist supreme.
Remove the reminders of the old days as physical locations, imo.
No the statues are almost exclusively post civil war by like 50+ years. This house is an actual contemporary and iirc still has some of the slave quarters on property from when it was still a museum.
The handful of statues that are actual civil war era artefacts we can keep, imo. Put them in a museum or an exhibit in a state park or something. Give it proper context, but let it exist.
The vast majority of them were built after the civil war in the jim crow era south, and those we can break into gravel and use for something fitting.
If something is in the public space where people have to go to, it is somewhat of an idol, like a collective standard. But if the statue was moved and placed into context with possibly some insight or summary or story behind the object, then it can become a learning tool. I mean, I’m not gonna get too upset, you know, but I’m just saying we don’t want to become extremist only for the other side to entrench themselves and have an existential fear. Like what I’m saying is, slavery might be over, but racism and all these isms still exist. It’s all just misplacing blame and ignoring the class war. And let me correct myself. Endentured servitude is not over. Slavery still exists in the United States, and it seems it’s coming back, but it’s hidden and veiled In language, and low pay. Like I think we should move past all this in a way and just acknowledge that there is a class of people who use criminals around the world and domestically to manipulate us and get us to doing things that are against our own best interest as they get high on the hog.
But if the statue was moved and placed into context with possibly some insight or summary or story behind the object, then it can become a learning tool.
I already know you are arguing disingenuously, but the context of the statues is hate. They were mostly erected LONG after the civil war to ensure black folks “knew their place” and to bolster Jim Crow.
All your crowing about “no war but class war” would go down a lot easier if not for your DeSantis-style insistence that we have to pretend all this shit didn’t happen in order to do anything about the shit that IS happening. You are making maga talking points but dressing it up in “it’s all a class war sheeple!”
I’m just saying we don’t want to become extremist only for the other side to entrench themselves and have an existential fear.
Oh, well, we wouldn’t want Republican voters to show us just how awful they can really be, would we? They might elect a despot who will run the country into the ground, dismantle our infrastructure, and run roughshod over the rights of US Citizens.
Further, anyone who sees the OP reaction to the burning of a plantation and feels their “side” has been aggrieved by that reaction is accidentally telling the truth about what “their side” actually stands for.
I personally feel that the historical significance of a thing outweighing its own bloody history, and believe that keeping the thing around helps us to remember its evil history, which may help us prevent it from happening, again.
But, I also appreciate your POV. 🤷♂️
Ehh we gotta keep a few remnants around. Think, if none of these places existed, you’d get neo-nazis claiming shit like “slavery never existed, there is no evidence of such a thing, where are the buildings? Where are these so called “plantations”. Exactly, it never existed”.
Exactly, erasing these things threatens to erase history. Granted, this is a bad case to defend as a historical landmark of slavery, since it was being used as a venue and resort, and therefore glorifying a southern culture
largelywholly made from the enslavement of Africans.What the fuck? It was being used as a resort? Jesus fucking Christ.
The slave quarters and other structures remain unburned, actually, so in fact the historical landmark/lesson is still there. :)
You’re drawing really strange moral lines here.
As if you aren’t.
Where did I draw a line, I just don’t see it as something to cheer.
The state should have taken it as a landmark and kept it as a museum. The absence of visible history is the easiest way to try to forget history, people already argue that the antebellum South wasn’t as horrific as it actually was and you’re cheering on the absence evidence that exists without it. Ie. You’re cheering on slavery denialism via spoliation.
Nice words you’re putting in my mouth.
How so?
If the quarters are important the house is as well.
People used that house for celebrations and weddings, not to remember its history
If white rich people are using it as a place to vacation and get married, it’s not a lesson and should burn.
The slave quarters and other structures remain unburned, actually, so in fact the historical landmark/lesson is still there. :)
That’s all I said but apparently my skin color isn’t quite right for this tachy fella.
Like the Confederate statues? Nah. Tear it down. It doesn’t serve as a reminder to prevent. It serves as a monolithic idol for shitty people to rally around and mythologize.
I don’t advocate burning history altogether, but keeping shitty places and statues around for shitty people to glorify serves the exact opposite of preserving the history. It just gives them hope and ideas that the “old days” will come back around. Take a picture or something and put it in a museum, at most. And make the museum about the horrific acts and atrocities, not about preserving the history of the vile.
There’s a reason the Vietnam memorial is so iconic. It lists the soldier’s names, and it preserves their legacy as a reminder of pointless war. But it doesn’t glorify the war. Same for the ground zero memorial in NYC. It does not glorify the war in Afghanistan and Iraq, nor the atrocities that occured over there despite the reminder from the Vietnam war. It serves to remind of the lives of many that were taken.
The only reason I’m okay with the preservation of the Holocaust memorial locations is that the history of the people murdered there is on display. The scratches in the walls. Their glasses and belongings. The current political situation aside, people can go there and see the evil that occured as a somber reminder. Whether they are one of the peoples that those atrocities happened to or not.
Yet still, shitty people pose on the tracks for instagram, or go there for the evil itself, rather than that somber reminder.
A slave house, plantation, or Confederate statue isn’t a somber reminder. It’s simply there because they want glorify the shitty acts and want them to come back around. They want to remind people what they think the worth of their existence is. They want to deify their generals and create some type of mythology to their history. There’s nothing there for the people who were abused or murdered in those times. It only stands currently so people now can say they want to preserve “the history,” which is the history of the abusers and the murderers.
Regarding confederate statues, I believe the only place they should be… is in their cemeteries. They should remove them from public lands and place them in the cemeteries.
This plantation house was used as a resort, so that’s a little off putting, and glorifying the history instead of being a sobering reminder of atrocity. I would have rather it be given over to the local government and turned into a museum against slavery. But, even then with how much the south glorifies the confederacy, the state wouldn’t have done a good job showing the evils of plantations like this.
Agreed on the second part. I don’t understand why anyone would want to sleep in a place like that.
But I disagree on the first part. Should all be rubble, imo. Glorifying the traitors just set us up for the current situation since the plants that have grown are just as rotten as the root imo. The only reason the man got office is because he co-opted the movement that’s been in play for at least 60 years by the likes of turtle-lookin fuckbag McConnell. Remember the Tea Party a few years ago? All of this is a culmination of years of effort by the right wings to push out progressive ideals. Trump just took advantage of the hysteria and pushed the GOP old guard out and set him up as narcissist supreme.
Remove the reminders of the old days as physical locations, imo.
No the statues are almost exclusively post civil war by like 50+ years. This house is an actual contemporary and iirc still has some of the slave quarters on property from when it was still a museum.
The handful of statues that are actual civil war era artefacts we can keep, imo. Put them in a museum or an exhibit in a state park or something. Give it proper context, but let it exist.
The vast majority of them were built after the civil war in the jim crow era south, and those we can break into gravel and use for something fitting.
If something is in the public space where people have to go to, it is somewhat of an idol, like a collective standard. But if the statue was moved and placed into context with possibly some insight or summary or story behind the object, then it can become a learning tool. I mean, I’m not gonna get too upset, you know, but I’m just saying we don’t want to become extremist only for the other side to entrench themselves and have an existential fear. Like what I’m saying is, slavery might be over, but racism and all these isms still exist. It’s all just misplacing blame and ignoring the class war. And let me correct myself. Endentured servitude is not over. Slavery still exists in the United States, and it seems it’s coming back, but it’s hidden and veiled In language, and low pay. Like I think we should move past all this in a way and just acknowledge that there is a class of people who use criminals around the world and domestically to manipulate us and get us to doing things that are against our own best interest as they get high on the hog.
I already know you are arguing disingenuously, but the context of the statues is hate. They were mostly erected LONG after the civil war to ensure black folks “knew their place” and to bolster Jim Crow.
All your crowing about “no war but class war” would go down a lot easier if not for your DeSantis-style insistence that we have to pretend all this shit didn’t happen in order to do anything about the shit that IS happening. You are making maga talking points but dressing it up in “it’s all a class war sheeple!”
https://www.history.com/articles/how-the-u-s-got-so-many-confederate-monuments
Oh, well, we wouldn’t want Republican voters to show us just how awful they can really be, would we? They might elect a despot who will run the country into the ground, dismantle our infrastructure, and run roughshod over the rights of US Citizens.
Further, anyone who sees the OP reaction to the burning of a plantation and feels their “side” has been aggrieved by that reaction is accidentally telling the truth about what “their side” actually stands for.
Amazing show of empathy