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Why would your idea of “normal” be more justified than that of others?
Colonialist rules to oppress the racialized victims of genocide
You say this, but the people yelling and screaming are typically the ones that are pushing for progress, while the people that hide behind “decorum” are the ones trying to strip people of their rights and funnel money into capital.
Also, human beings are animals…
Idk a county where minorities can briefly express disagreement in their own idiom seems pretty nice to me.
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You are missing the context of Maori culture being alive and well in NZ, in NZ Parliament and that the haka was a response to the erosion of Maori rights… In NZ.
No one was harmed by the haka.
Before you go calling folks disingenuous, you may want to get more background information.
No one was harmed by the haka.
The vote was delayed. You also don’t know the reaction of other parliamentary members. The context of the haka is a dance done to intimidate enemies. Maybe some of the other members feel intimidated now.
If I was a parliament member and stood up with 3 of my pals and loudly threatened another member, what do you think would happen to me?
No one was harmed by the haka.
The vote was delayed.
Did he fucking stutter? If anything, it sounds like delaying the vote was an attempt to prevent harm.
Maybe some of the other members feel intimidated now.
That doesn’t count as “harm” either, you dishonest ass.
in the USA we are purported to have “freedom of speech”
Can you elaborate further on the cultural context of the haka, fellow American?
I really hate this “you’re an outsider so you can’t have an opinion”. Am I only allowed to consider things in America?
You can consider whatever the heck you want but please don’t assert as fact your understanding of the cultural context of an art form from the other side of the globe.
Wouldn’t want parliamentary process to be disrupted in any way by Maori’s expressing concern about laws that are going to affect them negatively.
/s
lol that’s a hell of a strawman
“you’re being disingenuous, what about child sacrifice”
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I somewhat agree, but on the other hand its not the right place to do it.
If somebody would come and play bagpipes, or start yodel in a courtroom or parlament they would be asked to stop too. And i bet if in those cases they would not stop, they would get reprimands too. No matter how cultural it is.
“'[Parliament is] not the right place to [protest for your rights that Parliament is actively voting to remove].”
Stfu
what kind of country are you creating
one that doesn’t take away the rights of her people
if you want so bad to live in a “civilized” country where Indigenous people don’t bother you with their existence, go back to england you fucking colonizer
Yes, we mustn’t do that, instead we should filibuster for 16 hours.
Or, just perhaps, different cultures have different standards for how they protest in a debate.
Found the guy who’s never seen a Prime Minister’s Question Time.
Shame on you for calling a deeply historic cultural dance “yelling like an animal”. Fucking colonizer mindset is still alive and well, it seems
You’re racist that’s her culture not yelling like an animal.
Way to be an ignorant dweeb dude definitely take that shit back maybe delete your comment.
Get fucked, loser. Their culture, their land.
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Isn’t the point of the Haka to make the opponent uncomfortable? It’s a war ritual after all. And in this case it’s well applied, if someone wanted to take away my rights I would consider them my enemies too.
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“Might makes right” - you
Sti going to believe that when someone invades your home?
My man have you seen any parliament session in any democratic country at all? This is very normal for parliament session, it is often rowdy especially when debating a hot and controversial topic, and it IS part of the civilised world.
Have you seen the things average MPs get away with in NZ (and Australia) in parliament ?
So who can regale us on why the current coalition is running cover for colonialists in New Zealand. I thought that was usually a losing move there.
We got the project 2025 test run when a three party far right coalition got elected in 2023. Most regressive, cruel and mean sprited government in a generation.
USA, NZ, Australia, Canada, UK and beyond. They all coordinate, they use the same consultants, the same messages, their AstroTurf political advocacy groups all share info and coordinate policy to make our lives worse and the rich richer. Tailored slightly for local conditions but the same overall goal.
They really are a cancer all over the Western societies.
Can you elaborate? Which country is invading or colonializing NZ? This is genuinely news to me, I assumed NZ is a free country.
Yeah, gotta export that freedom to them Maori and ignore the rule of law by treaty with them yeah? What’s that got to do with colonialism? Can’t even be related. Who would even think such a thing? I am truly shocked.
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How is asking a question ignorance?
I think that was amazingly awesome. The people saying there’s a time and place, you’re correct. This was the time and place. Take a stand, make noise, make people uncomfortable. Quiet compliance is what got us here in the first place.
Also like, it’s fucking Aoteroa. In colonial nations one must be prepared for indigenous members of their government to perform cultural acts of resistance when the colonist faction of the government gets up to some shit.
From the other side of the world I saw her actions powerful and warranted. Though I do come from a country with a history of far less reasonable displays of dissatisfaction in our legislature.
Which one is that and what are the displays? (if you don’t mind sharing, of course)
It’s America, so in the modern day it’s mostly relegated to shit like reading the phone book or if lucky reading incredibly long relevant things. But we’ve had fist fights and duels as a result of congressional conflict.
Exactly. White person living on the other side of the god damn planet here, and I cheered when I heard what she did. She’s amazing. If all politicians had her moral fiber and backbone, we’d have world peace.
The people critizing her think Americans politics are the best model.
American here and who the fuck are these insane people
They are the locals. They are indigenous New Zealanders and they are doing something that is customary in their culture in the kind of situation they were in during that session.
The New Zealand lawmakers were trying to pass a bill that would have severely reduced the rights of the locals, and this reaction is part of how the local culture demands people to act.
I think the “insane people” they were referring to are the people who “think Americans politics are the best model”?
Gross. An American.
You know a lot of us hate our government too right?
Yeah you won’t shut the fuck up about it
Okay but in this thread we’re trying to express solidarity with the Maori; do you mind?!
Culture, in MY politics?? No, no, I need to pretend all people are the same and want the same things I do, if I have the context of culture 🤢 I might have to consider people have valid perspectives I don’t share!! /s if we do that here
This was five months ago. The MPs haka sparked national protest and a nine day march against the Treaty Principles Bill, which did not pass. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_Principles_Bill
I would venture to guess that the disciplinary action generated more attention than the haka itself. So a good thing in the end.
Sounds like it worked, and now the conservatives are mad and trying to punish?
Pretty much. That and trying to distract people from the details of their budget, which will without doubt be all the usual crap you’d expect from conservatives.
The bill was never going to pass, the other two parties in the coalition had made it very clear they would support the bill to its first reading and no further, and only agreed to support it that far because they couldn’t have formed a government otherwise.
This didn’t really change anything.
So if it was never going to pass, what was the point of introducing it? Just a provocation?
You’ll have to ask David Seymour that question.
Because they wanted to get their minor coalition partners the colonialist vote. Which of course means they wanted the colonialist vote by proxy.
Seems like a good protest in more than one way
What is MP
Member of Parliament.
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Colonialism is alive and well in NZ.
It was clear the collective western governance doesn’t give a shit about indigenous people when they facilitated, funded, supplied arms, and downplayed the palestinian genocide. Their “human rights” only extends to marketing themselves as moral civilized people, while making themselves rich and powerful comes first.
Honourable cause, not good praxis interjecting it into random topics making people more fed up hearing about it than they’re fed up hearing about vegans.
White folks stepping on brown folks isnt really a different topic, but I dont really disagree with you here either.
Can they appeal to the courts?
They did a dance and were suspended. Sounds like New Zealand parliament is channeling their inner magat.
Boo
Parliaments have rules dictating behaviour for good reason. If they don’t then discussion break down into chaos. So should they be punished? Absolutely.
The severity of that punishment depends on the type of haka and what was intended by it. In all the coverage I’ve seen no translation of what was said. A haka can be anything from expressions of joy to a declaration of war.
If the point was to intimidate or worse, then throw the book at her. Just as someone using intimidating or violent language would be ruled against. Doing it in a way specific to a particular culture does not get you protection.
If it was just a display of Maori culture at a poignant moment, expressing grief at the decision, then more leniency can be shown. However I doubt that’s the case given the physical actions involved.
If I recall correctly it was in response to a bill that would nullify the treaty with the indigenous people. In my mind, trying to gut the agreement that you’ll work together and respect each other instead of trying to kill each other is an act of war, any response less than killing people is being respectful.
Institutional violence is constant intimidation.
She has done this before. She knows Hakas gets attention. So she is aware of want she is doing.
I agree with you.
She knows Hakas gets attention. So she is aware of want she is doing.
THATS THE PURPOSE
the fuck you mean she’s aware of what she was doing? Fucking commie morons
You misunderstood, you wank.
Begging for attention or doing something that is reasonable can be good. Getting attention by being disruptive and manipulative is the problem. Hence the fact they threw the book at her.
Knowing is one thing. Context and intent is another.
I am not a commie. You commie.
there’s no difference but perspective you dope
The Maori party favour theatrics over results, and always have. One of the most notable examples, there was a motion in the house to change the dress code, which the speaker asked if anyone wanted to second. Nobody did.
The next day, one of their MPs was ejected from the house for not wearing a tie.
You’re speaking of criticism of the party I don’t care.
This woman did nothing wrong I don’t care if it is theatrical, politics is theatrics.
You seem to have a very simplistic view of the world, and don’t seem to be willing to take other points of view on board, so I don’t see much point engaging with you any further.
And you seem to be a moron who thinks theatrics=bad for some unclear and likely absolutely asinine.
This woman did nothing wrong. You’re just a little tool bag
Lol.
They did this right before Parliament was set to vote, and managed to disrupt and delay said vote.
So yes, it was pretty bad.
The video is less than two minutes long
Nah you racist. This is her culture and he land and the cunts trying to pull bullshit will get Haka’d out of parliament
Fuck your decorum
In case you’re actually curious https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ka_Mate
Thanks. That does give me more context. Not as bad as it could have been, but certainly has some venom in parts.
This call for more hakas… 💪
Hakas will continue until morale improves
My morale improved with the first one! …there is room for further improvement though 🤔
The three MPs will not receive their salaries during the suspension and will not be present during next week’s annual budget debate.
There we have it. They’re making sure that Maori people won’t have representation when taking away their rights is debated again.
This sort of thing always strikes me as odd.
There are agreed rules on language, some parliaments have dress code but besides penalties or fines a representative can be served with under no situation a representative can be barred from exercisizing their dutifully elected functions.
I have representatives in my national assembly with criminal charges that none the less exercise as they have been elected.
This is plainly stupid and abusive.
I don’t know about the NZ parliament, but in the UK parliament upon which it is based it absolutely possible for members to be thrown out of the chamber. It’s not even that rare. Famously Dennis Skinner was kicked out for calling them Prime Minister David Cameron “Dodgy Dave” and refusing to retract it.
Are you quoting some rule or just your own expectation?
I’m in Portugal. I’ve seen direct insults exchanged between representatives, a clear violation of manners and language, and the representative was not removed from the chamber. Their word was removed, a sanction issued, but that was it. We have representatives with active criminal charges in place that were not removed.
It changes from country to country. I some countries they even fight each other and throw stuff with no repercussions.
You’re thinking of Taiwan?
Well…I certainly am now
That makes two, then.
You’re right it does vary from country to country.
However, I don’t personally think it does the process any good if thing can descend into playground insults or violence. I’m in favour of people being expelled if they can’t maintain a base level of behaviour.
Long ago, in the excellent scholarly work entitled Potty Politics, I read that the distance between the lines on the floor of the UK House of Commons, that separate the two parties, is just too wide for crossing swords.
Another Portuguese, the world is small.
It’s small for others. We are everywhere.
13.2% of the inhabitants of Luxembourg are Portuguese.
#JustColonialThings
Water under the bridge. We just roam and spread everywhere.
I have lots of Portuguese neighbors here in California, so this checks out.
How are those guys? Friendly and caring folks? Or someone you should keep a distance from?
In New Zealand it is pretty common for members of parliament to get thrown out of the chamber for a whole bunch of reasons. In general you have to do whatever the speaker says, sort of like you would a judge in a court proceeding. There’s a whole lot ( perhaps dated ) rules around treating other members of the house with respect, letting them speak when their part of the process is up etc.
I think most of this is covered by this list of rules: https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/parliamentary-rules/standing-orders-2017-by-chapter/chapter-3-general-procedures/
This is plainly stupid and abusive.
Layers of bureaucracy mostly exist to insulate the ruling class from anything that may threaten their power.
The solution, as usual, is to lose faith in the system and fight back in the ways you can. Namely, your wallets.
My wallet as no place in this conversation. It is just a battered piece a leather that is currently struggling to hold two bank cards, some coins and a few receipts. And my identification cards.
Fight with your vote. Support smaller parties. Be politically active. Demand change.
Save this example for the next time some chud tries to tell you colonization is a past event and not an ongoing process right this minute
Wait if I’m reading this right this punishment comes from something that happened 5 months ago and it will result in them not being allowed to participate in the budget debate? Will that’s fucking Twisted isn’t it? If it was really a punishment for an action why would it not happen sooner? Why would they wait until this critical budget debate to implement it? Seems like maybe it’s just an excuse to stop these people from participating in the budget debate. Like an excuse to stop their constituents from being represented. This is blatantly anti-democratic.
It’s racism so that the colonialist power structure can continue its genocide without dissent from the people it is targeting
In Spain one congressman, Alberto Rodríguez Rodríguez, had his seat removed by a “judicial decision” in 2021 and once the elections passed, in 2024, and he didn’t have the seat anymore, that “judicial decision” was reversed, saying that he had to be fined but he shouldn’t have lost his seat.
Now everyone, let’s sing: LAWFAREEEEEEEEEEE!
Brazil had an entire presidential coup based around the same logic.
Fuck the King
Like the French do.
Does the hakka mean the same as it does in western cultures as a peaceful perfomative protest or does that mean something like a threat/declaration of war in Maori culture? I’d apply the former, but last time I did that I was accused of being orientalist :/
It can be both. Traditionally is was a ‘war dance’, but depending on the lyrics and context it can be used as welcoming, a farewell, or many such things. You would have to translate it to know.
makes sense
