Well personally I’m not completely convinced. After all, if not America, who? There are very few countries that can credibly “teach us about democracy”. Germany? Sure! Well, certainly for a few decades at least, until a few years ago.
Because, deep down, I think JD Vance is on to something. It’s not healthy in a democracy when 20% of the voters are being systematically excluded. At the very least we need to ask why those voters feel the way they do, and try to find a way of including them. That’s what democracy means: allowing the people into the room where decisions are made. The firewall is not a success of German democracy, it’s an admission of Germany democracy’s failure.
But I do agree that the smug tone of Vance’s lecture was infuriating.
Mm interesting, first you state you want to be contrarian, but now you are saying he’s on to something. Am I reading you right?
Because, that’s a whole different discussion… I’m not sure I feel the need to have one (in this forum), because it was a meme. So up2u what you make of it.
It’s a complex subject. A contrarian is surely anyone who doesn’t hold cartoonishly simply views. America’s 240-year experiment in constitutional government is genuinely unique in the world. I find that admirable. The fact that the current US president literally attempted a coup and was then forgiven by the voters - not so admirable. Germany’s post-war constitution and political stability are also somewhat legendary and impressive. But Germany’s ability to create so many voters who reject the system, and then to further piss them off by locking them out of that system - not so impressive. It’s complex.
He criticized a lot of European stands and politics including the German agreement between all democratic parties to not work with the extreme right AfD. This agreement is often called “Brandmauer” (firewall). The AfD will probably receive around 20% of the vote in next Sunday’s election.
Well personally I’m not completely convinced. After all, if not America, who? There are very few countries that can credibly “teach us about democracy”. Germany? Sure! Well, certainly for a few decades at least, until a few years ago.
Because, deep down, I think JD Vance is on to something. It’s not healthy in a democracy when 20% of the voters are being systematically excluded. At the very least we need to ask why those voters feel the way they do, and try to find a way of including them. That’s what democracy means: allowing the people into the room where decisions are made. The firewall is not a success of German democracy, it’s an admission of Germany democracy’s failure.
But I do agree that the smug tone of Vance’s lecture was infuriating.
Mm interesting, first you state you want to be contrarian, but now you are saying he’s on to something. Am I reading you right?
Because, that’s a whole different discussion… I’m not sure I feel the need to have one (in this forum), because it was a meme. So up2u what you make of it.
It’s a complex subject. A contrarian is surely anyone who doesn’t hold cartoonishly simply views. America’s 240-year experiment in constitutional government is genuinely unique in the world. I find that admirable. The fact that the current US president literally attempted a coup and was then forgiven by the voters - not so admirable. Germany’s post-war constitution and political stability are also somewhat legendary and impressive. But Germany’s ability to create so many voters who reject the system, and then to further piss them off by locking them out of that system - not so impressive. It’s complex.
Don’t feed the jaguar.
Alas, debate seems to be permitted in this community.
What was Vance saying? Missed that.
He criticized a lot of European stands and politics including the German agreement between all democratic parties to not work with the extreme right AfD. This agreement is often called “Brandmauer” (firewall). The AfD will probably receive around 20% of the vote in next Sunday’s election.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ceve3wl21x1o