When people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical, they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together.
The authoritarian left is bad
The authoritarian right is bad
But if you think that the two are equally bad, then you’re wronger than wrong
Mao, Stalin, AND Hitler ALL genocided within their own territory, whether intentionally or not ( Mao wiped-out knowledge-workers, creating massive famine, ttbomk )
The whole “horseshoe political-spectrum” is failing-to-understand that there actually is a different dimenion involved…
Considered-reasoning only lives in the middle,
& imprint->reaction-mind owns both extremes, AND it also owns many who nominally are “center”.
Kahneman’s “Thinking Fast and Slow” is on the difference between the 2 kinds of mental-function,
and to the best of my knowledge, the imprint->reaction mind is lower-forebrain, while the considered-reasoning mind is upper-forebrain.
ALL ideology/prejudice/“religion” ( religion, not spirituality, which is considered-reasoning rooted ) is rooted in the imprint->reaction bypassing-actual-thinking mind.
The Catholic inquisition, the murderers of any religion, the murderers of any political-ideology, etc…
I simply cannot understand how anybody could maintain that the ideology-genociding-of-the-left OR the ideology-genociding-of-the-right OR the ideology-genociding-of-religions OR the ideology-genociding-of-racism OR the ideology-genociding-of-gender-racism ( the inquisition was part of that, the Muslim immigrant gang-rapes committed in their new countries is part of that, the male-supremacist-vote which helped block Harris from winning in the US is part of it, the fact that rape is a pretend-crime in actual-practice is part of that, as the male authorities just don’t consider it to be a “real” crime, if its “only” against girls & women, the scum who rewrote Genesis millenia ago, to alter it from saying that women “ate of the fruit of the knowledge of Good & Evil” ( which it still says ), to instead “interpreted” that, right in the text, so that instead of meaning that women ate of moral understanding ( altruism is demonstrated to be generalized-mothering, in wasps & humans, & grandmothers in the tribe are a significant tribal-survival-advantage, through deep-time/evolution )…
Is the intentional-genociding of Tibetans & Uighurs “OK” because it is being done by the left?
Was Stalin’s force-exterminating millions of his own country’s people somehow OK?
XOR is it that the genociding of fascists doesn’t count?
Obviously, you hold that I, like the original-poster am beyond-reason, beyond wrong.
That’s fine.
I’m fed-up with being gaslit by ideologues, & ideologues are equally fed-up with all who are not within their ideology, obviously.
Which is the essence of The Great Filter, in-which humankind will either lock entirely into imprint->reaction mode & simply tantrum/pogrom until all our kind is extinguished,
XOR some fraction of humankind will do all they can to lock-into considered-reasoning, & do everything they can to continue force-evolving, while surviving the apoctalyptic-nihilism of the ideologues…
I don’t expect the total-war to cease until the end of this century, once it starts ( in the 2030’s, probably )
Party-fascism ( which is what “communism” actually is ) & individual-fascism both are intolerant of healthy-diversity.
Collectivist-evil & individualist-evil are equal-“powers”, just different in methods & in their self-programming.
That’s a lot of words to write for either not reading what I wrote, or not even attempting to understand it.
It’s wild that I very explicitly said they’re both bad and then you go on to imply that I, or people like me, think that one of these is “ok”.
And that you chose to use those straw men instead of engaging with the concept of relativity of wrongness, tells me that you probably don’t even really believe in that novella you wrote.
Good thing I didn’t say that.
Too bad you missed when I called both “bad”
Two things can both be indefensible, and yet still one is preferable. Although you lead with “and”, you seem to be suggesting that this isn’t the case, which is a wild position that doesn’t hold up to even that barest of scrutiny.
You can rank a list of things by preference, even if it contains more than 2 items and multiple items are bad.
Let me give you an example:
Give an innocent child a candy
Run over an innocent child’s foot
Blow up an innocent child with C4
2 of those options are bad and indefensible, but between the bad options, one is certainly worse.
Come back to me when you have an argument that stands up to a light breeze, your “all bad things are equally bad” routine is the kind of nonsense that allows monsters to come into power.
Too bad this isn’t a discussion about that option. We’re discussing the difference between option 2 and option 3, or the lack thereof. You can talk about things you don’t want to choose.
Dude, wtf man. This isn’t complicated, I don’t know why you’re having such a hard time of it.
These are things we’re talking about and just because we’re talking about a thing doesn’t mean we are bound to choose it if given them as a choice.
I can say that I hate one thing more than another thing without ever being forced to choose either of them.
Just like in my example I’m not forced to run over a child’s foot just because I spoke about it.
And besides sometimes you ARE forced to choose between a list of bad options. Especially in politics. There is certainly a “least bad” option, and treating everything bad as equal is, like I said before, how monsters get power.
I refuse to believe that these are the responses of someone having a good faith discussion. You’re clearly trolling, but idky because you’re not being funny or clever. You’re just making tangential nonsense arguments for no discernable reason.
The authoritarian left is bad
The authoritarian right is bad
But if you think that the two are equally bad, then you’re wronger than wrong
Mao, Stalin, AND Hitler ALL genocided within their own territory, whether intentionally or not ( Mao wiped-out knowledge-workers, creating massive famine, ttbomk )
The whole “horseshoe political-spectrum” is failing-to-understand that there actually is a different dimenion involved…
Considered-reasoning only lives in the middle,
& imprint->reaction-mind owns both extremes, AND it also owns many who nominally are “center”.
Kahneman’s “Thinking Fast and Slow” is on the difference between the 2 kinds of mental-function,
and to the best of my knowledge, the imprint->reaction mind is lower-forebrain, while the considered-reasoning mind is upper-forebrain.
ALL ideology/prejudice/“religion” ( religion, not spirituality, which is considered-reasoning rooted ) is rooted in the imprint->reaction bypassing-actual-thinking mind.
The Catholic inquisition, the murderers of any religion, the murderers of any political-ideology, etc…
I simply cannot understand how anybody could maintain that the ideology-genociding-of-the-left OR the ideology-genociding-of-the-right OR the ideology-genociding-of-religions OR the ideology-genociding-of-racism OR the ideology-genociding-of-gender-racism ( the inquisition was part of that, the Muslim immigrant gang-rapes committed in their new countries is part of that, the male-supremacist-vote which helped block Harris from winning in the US is part of it, the fact that rape is a pretend-crime in actual-practice is part of that, as the male authorities just don’t consider it to be a “real” crime, if its “only” against girls & women, the scum who rewrote Genesis millenia ago, to alter it from saying that women “ate of the fruit of the knowledge of Good & Evil” ( which it still says ), to instead “interpreted” that, right in the text, so that instead of meaning that women ate of moral understanding ( altruism is demonstrated to be generalized-mothering, in wasps & humans, & grandmothers in the tribe are a significant tribal-survival-advantage, through deep-time/evolution )…
Is the intentional-genociding of Tibetans & Uighurs “OK” because it is being done by the left?
Was Stalin’s force-exterminating millions of his own country’s people somehow OK?
XOR is it that the genociding of fascists doesn’t count?
Obviously, you hold that I, like the original-poster am beyond-reason, beyond wrong.
That’s fine.
I’m fed-up with being gaslit by ideologues, & ideologues are equally fed-up with all who are not within their ideology, obviously.
Which is the essence of The Great Filter, in-which humankind will either lock entirely into imprint->reaction mode & simply tantrum/pogrom until all our kind is extinguished,
XOR some fraction of humankind will do all they can to lock-into considered-reasoning, & do everything they can to continue force-evolving, while surviving the apoctalyptic-nihilism of the ideologues…
I don’t expect the total-war to cease until the end of this century, once it starts ( in the 2030’s, probably )
Party-fascism ( which is what “communism” actually is ) & individual-fascism both are intolerant of healthy-diversity.
Collectivist-evil & individualist-evil are equal-“powers”, just different in methods & in their self-programming.
… shrug …
_ /\ _
That’s a lot of words to write for either not reading what I wrote, or not even attempting to understand it.
It’s wild that I very explicitly said they’re both bad and then you go on to imply that I, or people like me, think that one of these is “ok”.
And that you chose to use those straw men instead of engaging with the concept of relativity of wrongness, tells me that you probably don’t even really believe in that novella you wrote.
And if you think that makes either defendable you’ve lost the plot.
Good thing I didn’t say that.
Too bad you missed when I called both “bad”
Two things can both be indefensible, and yet still one is preferable. Although you lead with “and”, you seem to be suggesting that this isn’t the case, which is a wild position that doesn’t hold up to even that barest of scrutiny.
Both are bad, neither is preferable. The world is not binary, you have other options.
Guess what?
You can rank a list of things by preference, even if it contains more than 2 items and multiple items are bad.
Let me give you an example:
2 of those options are bad and indefensible, but between the bad options, one is certainly worse.
Come back to me when you have an argument that stands up to a light breeze, your “all bad things are equally bad” routine is the kind of nonsense that allows monsters to come into power.
Right so you go with 1.
You don’t go with left fash/2 or right fash/3, those are out of the question.
That’s such a cool story.
Too bad this isn’t a discussion about that option. We’re discussing the difference between option 2 and option 3, or the lack thereof. You can talk about things you don’t want to choose.
Dude, wtf man. This isn’t complicated, I don’t know why you’re having such a hard time of it.
And we’re discussing how some “options” are not options at all, they fall under the bad label and the degree of difference is irrelevant.
Maybe “options” was a bad choice of word.
These are things we’re talking about and just because we’re talking about a thing doesn’t mean we are bound to choose it if given them as a choice.
I can say that I hate one thing more than another thing without ever being forced to choose either of them.
Just like in my example I’m not forced to run over a child’s foot just because I spoke about it.
And besides sometimes you ARE forced to choose between a list of bad options. Especially in politics. There is certainly a “least bad” option, and treating everything bad as equal is, like I said before, how monsters get power.
I refuse to believe that these are the responses of someone having a good faith discussion. You’re clearly trolling, but idky because you’re not being funny or clever. You’re just making tangential nonsense arguments for no discernable reason.