• meowMix2525@lemm.ee
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    2 days ago

    So you’re content with democrats just lying to get elected instead of making material changes in their policy that make people want to vote for them? You want them to be the better option than Republicans… by acting like Republicans, with the exact same policy, but it’s a woman or a POC doing the policy??

    • agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works
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      2 days ago

      with the exact same policy, but it’s a woman or a POC doing the policy

      That’s just objectively false. No, their policy isn’t good enough, but to pretend that it’s exactly the same is disingenuous.

      The Democrats are always going to be controlled opposition, I just care about them beating MAGA long enough to develop an alternative that can actually replace them. I don’t vote for representation, the ones who represent me don’t have enough support to win yet. I’m voting for the easier-to-defeat enemy.

      • meowMix2525@lemm.ee
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        2 days ago

        I don’t vote for representation, the ones who represent me don’t have enough support to win yet.

        This is so self defeating. If every person that said this just voted their beliefs instead of spreading this ideology like a cancer, if the Democrats even have a party left after that, you would be able to use your bloc to pressure them into being everything you say they are.

        They said the same shit when Bernie ran in the primaries “oh, he’s too old, he’s not electable!!” until they realized that Bernie was too popular and just rat fucked the primary instead. He wasn’t even running on the date of the primary and he still got half the votes that Biden did!!

        You realize there are republicans that think this way too? It doesn’t only benefit democrats. Not all Republicans are fully behind Trump, but they’ll be damned if they vote for a democrat.

        Parties win when people vote for them. That includes you. Stop spreading this self defeating, voter shaming ideology just to fucking lose elections because the democratic platform is hollow ineffective bullshit that the dems served up knowing you’ll fucking vote for it anyways.

        • agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works
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          2 days ago

          If every person that said this just voted their beliefs instead of spreading this ideology like a cancer

          So if every person just spontaneously decided to ignore history, human nature, and the mechanics of a first past the post election system, and each of their beliefs aligned perfectly to rally behind the same candidate? That stresses even the wildest suspension of disbelief.

          if the Democrats even have a party left after that, you would be able to use your bloc to pressure them into being everything you say they are.

          What exactly do I say they are?

          And when has that ever happened? You can’t get a roomful of Leftists to agree on what the Left is, much less a national population of Leftists to agree on a specific course of action.

          Not all Republicans are fully behind Trump, but they’ll be damned if they vote for a democrat.

          And that’s why your course of action can’t work. The right wing is authoritarian, they unify behind a figurehead. Every Leftist voting their beliefs leads to dozens of uncoordinated splinter groups, too busy in-fighting to unify behind anyone who could defeat the lockstep of right wing voters. They don’t spend time fantasizing about impossible hypotheticals, they learn the mechanics of the game and play to win. They make concessions, choose a horse that can win, and unify.

          Leftists are a minority. They don’t have to be, if they could focus on winning rhetoric to pull voters instead of hoping everyone just spontaneously agrees with them, but they’re too busy criticizing the ones who try to develop winning strategies because they fail all the Leftist purity tests. Republicans win because they vote for candidates they disagree with, because splitting the vote loses FPTP elections.

          When the Left votes their beliefs, the right sweeps them every time. The Democrats don’t cave to pressure to move their platform to the fractured left, they go hunting for “moderates”. This is how we get Democrats catering to Cheney. Leftist appeal to ideological purity.

          Parties win when enough people vote for them. You can’t beat propaganda with purity. You beat propaganda with propaganda.

          • meowMix2525@lemm.ee
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            1 hour ago

            Leftist candidates can’t even get their rhetoric in front of people to convince them, because of actions by the Democrats. They block the left from debates and ballot access, and they claim to speak for them so don’t even bother looking at what they have to say as we backpedal and freely allow republican attacks on anything that even resembles leftism. All the rhetoric you are repeating here, is precisely how they sell it to you as to not damage the illusion of democracy that keeps you playing their game.

            How is any of what you said of Republicans, untrue for Democrats? We are all fundamentally no different from each other, we are all seeking security and stability in our lives. The mainstream parties just make it impossible to cut through their propaganda, on both sides, because they both play for the same class of people. They both suppress and deny platforms for the truth because the truth is a threat to them and their system.

            That is why it is on us to reject that system, seek out the truth anyways, and spread it far and wide among the working class, to release the working class from the cognitively dissonant narratives of the capitalist class. It happened to end slavery and jim crow and to win the new deal that ended the great depression. Nothing was ever achieved by waiting for a politician to do the right thing.

            The working class must win power because capitalists will always grab it back when our backs are turned and demoralize us by making it seem impossible to win any more than what keeps their machine turning. The least you can do is stop helping this process.

            The Democrats don’t cave to pressure to move their platform to the fractured left, they go hunting for “moderates”.

            Yet you claim they are the easier party to move, even as this strategy causes them to bleed voters and lose elections that they claim are so important to “preserving democracy”. Sure, the right sweeps the Democrats every single time, because Democrats are just as uninterested in inconvenient objective realities as the Republicans, so all it amounts to is whichever team speaks more strongly to a voters’ preconceived identity, which the capitalist class is able to define to some extent, and which team is able to sound like they have solutions. Of course, how do you expect to convert Republicans to a party whose contradictions lie just as bare naked as theirs??

            Cope harder. Don’t get mad at leftists because you fell for this utter bullshit and we didn’t.

            • agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works
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              44 minutes ago

              Yet you claim they are the easier party to move

              I very much did not claim that. I said they are the easier enemy to fight. That is a very, very different thing.

      • Krauerking@lemy.lol
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        2 days ago

        They are not easier to defeat or someone would have done it in the last 40 years. They are sloppy and old but don’t think that it makes them any easier especially when they aim to represent the Status Quo.