When you use Celsius from birth 41C does make you say FORTY ONE DEGREES?!!!
Yeah, but it hits different. Smaller number is smaller.
That’s why I use Kelvin. THREE HUNDRED AND FIFTEEN DEGREES?!!
Degrees? While using Kelvin?? OP is a phony!
I’d excuse it as part of the joke
Should use Rankine with that logic. It comes out to 566.
Why not Centikelvin?
THIRTY ONE THOUSAND AND FIVE HUNDRED CENTIKELVIN??!!!
100%
It’s just Americans having American perspectives promoted as world views.
It’s about crossing into triple digits, a new order of magnitude, it feels heavy.
But it’s also underwhelming when your usual reference for over 100 is, “WHAT IT’S HOT ENOUGH TO BOIL WATER OUTSIDE!?”
On the other hand, if it was 107°C outside, the outrage would be so much more justified.
But much less vocal.
You know, because we’d all be dead.
By that metric, kelvin would be even better though.
by that metric
Americans cannot understand any metric
9mm
We’re more familiar with 5.56x45mm thanks to all our school shootings thank you very much.
I would make a bet that more mass shootings are done with 9mm. Depending on which shootings they consider ‘mass’ I see estimates from 60-80% for handgun usage. I’m sure the cheap .22 is a large number, but 9mm is probably right up there. There is a large bias in reporting the school shootings and shootings involving rifles by the media. They almost ignore the others.
Please raise this temperature by 1.4x10^-23 Joules - statements of the utterly deranged
Joules are energy. You need thermal capacity to turn them into temperature.
You miss out on screaming that it’s negative anything though.
-40F = -40C
Kelvin doesn’t have a negative.
The best system would have 0 at a mild, comfortable temperature, and go up or down by 100 degrees per one degrees Fahrenheit.
But mild and comfortable is different for different people who are acclimated to different weather.
We need a defined ‘mild’ temperature. i vote for 70F/21C.
It’s a bit chilly for the warm weathered folks and a bit warm for the cold weathered folks. Seems reasonable but I’m open to suggestions.
Once again… the classic argument of: “Well, I grew up using this system, and I’m used to the system. I have built an internal intuition for how hot and cold the temperature is. I am used to >100 being hot! 40 is not hot!”
Well then. I grew up using celcius and… “IT’S FOURTY FUCKING ONE DEGREES OUTSIDE?” sounds just as hot.
The joke
Your head
No… I get it… 41 < 105… I totally agree haha funny joke. I’m just over this debate. Who gives a fuck what temperature scale you use? Just use the one you know. We have conversions for that reason.
No, that’s not it, we’re measuring in incredulity units, which are syllables.
“One hun-dred and se-ven?!” == 6 syllables
“For-ty one?!” == 3 syllables
Also, the first one has more vowel sounds to really draw out to indicate higher levels of I-can’t-even. It sounds only golly-jeepers in Celsius, and much more I’m-so-done-with-this-shit in Fahrenheit.
The only good thing about Fahrenheit is that 69 degrees (20.5 C) is a nice temperature.
And you can bake things at 420
You could bake something at 420 Celsius too, assuming your okay with charcoal as the end product
You can make the temperature dial of an oven have matching degrees of rotation and degrees Celcius.
Turn the dial to point straight down to bake at 180°
Turn it 3/4 of the way to cook a pizza at 270°
Also it’s a 0-100 scale of how hot it is outside, and it requires no prior understanding to use it as such.
If that was true outsiders should be able to use Fahrenheit without much explanation. I’ve never got a clue what the °F values mean, I always have to use a converter. It’s really not as intuitive as people who grew up with it seem to believe.
If that was true outsiders should be able to use Fahrenheit without much explanation. I’ve never got a clue what the °F values mean, I always have to use a converter. It’s really not as intuitive as people who grew up with it seem to believe.
because it’s all relative, and you need to actually know how the temperatures relate to the things you’re experiencing? I’m going to hazard a guess and say you’re comfortable with using celsius? Oops cognitive bias. You would have to test this on someone who doesn’t understand temperature yet. It just so happens that here in the US, it pretty conveniently lines up with those figures for us.
If your example cannot be proven on any existing person I’d argue it’s hardly relevant to our reality.
°F most definitely isn’t intuitive enough for people who aren’t accustomed to it to use. If it is more intuitive at all, it’s not to any meaningful degree.
If your example cannot be proven on any existing person I’d argue it’s hardly relevant to our reality.
possibly? Arguably you could still make the case that the existing range of 0-100f is more pleasant, and arguably nicer to use. But you would have to either find someone uniquely adapted to both systems, or you would have to do a lot of independent study on how humans interact with numbers and ranges of numbers. In order to find a specific answer it’s going to be quite hard.
intuition is bullshit anyway, it’s highly predicated on previous experience and an existing knowledge base, so i feel like that’s kind of arguing “well a race car driver drives good, so why don’t normal drivers drive good” kind of territory if you arent careful.
Yeah, which is why most people here in favor of Celcius argue that Fahrenheit isn’t, in fact, more intuitive and therefore more suited to describe the weather. Both are arbitrary, both can be learned and used very easily, the only difference is what you’re used to.
yeah, but i think arguing that celsius is “more intuitive” when the one primary advantage outside of science is that it lines up with water relatively nicely compared to fahrenheit, is like, ok.
32f and 212f and 0c and 100c aren’t really all that substantially different as far as the general use case goes.
For proof that this thread is just people justifying what they know as better somehow, look no further than Canada.
We do cooking temps in Fahrenheit, weather in Celsius. Human weights in pounds, but never pounds and oz. Food weights in grams, cooking weights in pounds and oz. Liquid volume in millilitres and litres, but cooking in cups, teaspoons and tablespoons. Speed & distance in kilometres, heights in feet and inches.
Try and give this any consistency and people will look at you like you’re fucked. The next town is 100km over, I’m 5ft 10in, a can of soda is 355ml, it’s 21c out and I have the oven roasting something at 400f. Tell me it’s 68f out and I will fight you.
People like what they are used to, and will bend over backwards to justify it. This becomes blatantly obvious when you use a random mix of units like we do, because you realize that all that matters is mental scale.
If Fahrenheit is “how people feel” then why are feet useful measurements of height when 90% of people are between 4ft and 6ft? They aren’t. You just know the scale in your head, so when someone says they’re 7ft tall you say “dang that’s tall”. That’s it.
We do cooking temps in Fahrenheit, weather in Celsius.
Fahrenheit: let’s use “really cold weather” as zero and “really hot weather” as 100.
Celsius: let’s use “freezing water” as zero, and “boiling water” as 100.
Canucks:
Fahrenheit: let’s use “really cold weather” as zero and really hot weather as 100.
I don’t really have a horse in this race but this logic doesn’t seem legit to me.
How is -17°C really cold weather AND 37°C really hot weather?
One is actively trying to kill you if weren’t already dead by the time the weather got that bad. The other just makes your nuts stick to your thighs – if you’re in a humid place.
I’d agree with the logic if 100F was equal to something like 65°C. 🤷♂️
Thank you. That argument bugs the heck out of me.
maybe it’s a climate thing? Where do you live, here in ameica it’s quite literally the best way to describe it. We see swings below 0f at the coldest parts of the year, and upwards of 100+ in the hottest parts of the year.
So why not make the temperature go to the hottest? Let me guess, 0 isn’t the coldest either in America, right? It’s just so arbitrary, and pure cope to say it’s the best way to describe temperature.
The records are -80°F and 134°F
That’s quite an error in a “whole human experience in zero to one hundred” system
It’s just so arbitrary
All of them are. The decision to use water at all is completely arbitrary. Even Kelvin and Rankine are completely arbitrary: the “width” of the degrees is not defined by a physical factor, but relative to an entirely arbitrary concept.
We live on a water planet. The weather we care about is water.
If you look at the overnight low you probably want to know if frost was likely. Guess what Celcius temperature frost happens at.
It makes no sense because that’s not what the 0 of the Fahrenheit scale is. The 0 point is the coldest an ammonium chloride brine mixture can be cooled to. The 90 point was an estimated average for human body temperature (it was adjusted up over time). These were chosen because the goal of the scale was to provide a way for people to have a defined temperature scale with a range and degree size that could be reliably reproduced without passing around standardized tools. 100 is really hot because human bodies were used as a reference for the high end, but the low end has nothing to do with the human body.
an ammonium chloride brine
At what molar concentration? Was it just as much NH4Cl as he could dissolve at ambient temperature and pressure?
As I understand it, yes it was a saturated solution.
If Fahrenheit is “how people feel” then why are feet useful measurements of height when 90% of people are between 4ft and 6ft?
Those are two different things. Hope this helps.
It doesn’t help at all, it’s being intentionally obtuse. You know what I mean, it’s unhelpful to pretend otherwise and pick a fight over it.
If an argument is being made for one thing, Fahrenheit, it’s not relevant to bring up a different thing. Why is feet a useful measurement? Maybe it’s not, we’re talking about temperature.
Yeah like the metric system has good arguments for why it’s measurements and weights are better, mainly conversion being easier, but for temperature there really isn’t an argument. I would make an argument for Fahrenheit as it gives more precision without having to use decimals which at least in America isn’t a thing for temperature. But those are pretty minor things and I do tend to agree it comes down to what you grew up with.
without having to use decimals
This fear of decimals is a strictly American thing. Celsius achieves more precision with decimals than fahrenheit without decimals. And this American fear of decimals is pretty funny, considering you will happily do advanced fractions as soon as you are doing length measurements.
I don’t mind decimals at all, it’s more that I don’t trust companies to actually deal with supporting decimals when making the switch. Plus the last time I discussed this on Lemmy someone was saying that decimals aren’t even universally used and it might depend on what you get whether you get that precision or not. Either way like the main point of my post was anyways these are minor arguments and at the end of the day there isn’t really a reason to use Celsius vs Fahrenheit.
Can you feel the difference between 23.5° and 24? I can’t. You don’t often need precision to tenths.
In Australia most weather providers give you whole degrees, the bureau of meteorology gives you to one decimal in reports and whole degrees in forecasts
My coffee and beer boilers can hit high precision temperatures to variously 0.1° or 0.5° precision. The beer boiler gives 3 digits - hundredths below 10°, tenths below 100°, whole numbers 100° and over
You can choose the precision of thermometers you wish to buy for yourself
I have seen fahrenheit thermometers which are hard to read to better precision than 5 degrees
i still don’t see how this is intentionally obtuse, feet are a mid point between inches and yards, it just makes sense to break down things over a certain amount to a much more palatable scale. Everyone knows roughly what 1 ft is, and everyone knows roughly what 1 inch is. Paired together you can get a pretty rough and accurate guesstimate of height. I feel like it’s also pretty expected for it to be within the range of 4-6 ft. Most people don’t really measure feet outside of that range, unless you’re doing construction.
humans are a comparatively arbitrary height so i feel like you’re just complaining about the height of humans being weirdly arbitrary? Out of all the systems you could use for height, ft and in is pretty well tuned to the human nature, you’re not gonna do much better.
41°C sounds terrifying to me
ITT: Europeans tie their personal identity to an arbitrary scale for the expression of mean entropy.
Just use Kelvin. Problem solved.
I present the temperature scale that I made up- the Human Scale (H°)
I thought about the Fahrenheit vs Celsius debate, and I think both have practical uses, however I think combined they could make a very practical scale.
Fahrenheit: while my American sensibilities agree that 100° is a good marker for what % of my patience is used up to cut a bitch, I think a similar place would be the average human body temperature. For this reason, 100°H = 98.6°F . It’s not a perfect match, but it can still give us the satisfaction of “IT’S 100°!?” while having practical implications for medical uses “your body temperature is 102°, 2° warmer than average”.
Celsius: I think this scale makes a ton of sense for colder temperatures. When the thermometer reads 0°, that’s when you can expect snow. For this reason, 0°H = 0°C.
The conversation rates are:
H = (F-32) × 1.5
H= C × 2.7
More precise is
H = (F-32) × 1.501501501…
H = C × 2.7027027027…
While using the freezing point of water and the average human body temperature seem like inconsistent and arbitrary benchmarks, my goal is less about consistency and more about practicality for everyday use.
Now watch this scale grow as big as Esperanto.
But really it is much better for human temperatures.
It’s just intuitive, 0F is 0% hot, and 100F is 100% hot.
When the dry bulb gets above 100F, wind only cools you down by sweat evaporation, and when the wet bulb gets above 100F, even that can’t cool you down, and you will die if you don’t get to a cooler or drier environment.
“Intuitive” is a meaningless metric for a single scaled number. Whichever system you are used to will be the more “intuitive”.
Also, climate can play into which system feels more useful. Where I live, 100F occurs only rarely (and since air conditioning is almost ubiquitous, not something I’d bother looking out for), while 0C is an outdoor temperature that I do need to be aware of for half the year.
I disagree that either would be just as intuitive. Fahrenheit being 0=cold and 100=hot is intuitive because there are a lot of things we do in the world that exist on a scale of 0 - 100. Percentages, just off the bat. Also, fahrenheit has a higher degree of fidelity in the temperature range that we use.
Celsius’s general temperature scale is like -10 - 40 which is absolutely not intuitive because it doesn’t look like any other scale we use as humans. I agree that we get used to Celsius fast and it’s a fine it’s not like it’s super confusing (and Celsius is so much more useful scientifically).
Which system did you grow up with? Because I grew up from the start with Celsius und it is 100% intuitive to me. Everytime you americans use your funny temperature numbers I have to stop and use a tool for transforming it or I simply ignore it and go “low means cold and high means hot, how high? Ain’t nobody got time for dat!”
So I disagree with your notion that Fahrenheit is intuitive. The system you grew up with and have multiple experiences as reference points for, is the system you feel is intuitive is also my opinion.
Never said either one can’t be intuitive, just that the scale of farenheit has a precedence outside of it being an arbitrary temperature measurement by being a scale that goes from about 0 - 100.
If you had never used either scale and some one asked: “which is more intuitive, a temperature scale where -10 is really cold and 40 is really hot or one where 0 is really cold and 100 is really hot?” I know which one I would pick because I’ve done things before like calculate percentages and work in a base 10 system so it makes sense for the scale to be between two orders of magnitude.
But that is what we others are saying: there is no “more intuitive” system, just one you know better and can quicker evaluate how it would feel! So you agree with us.
Everything you said can be said about Celsius scale as well.
There is also a precedence for Celsius more than just an arbitrary number between 0 & 100.
A scale for liquid water, you know, the stuff that is the reason why we call our little spaceship "the blue marble"and why we even have this discussion, because it is the basis of all life on earth, is also not a bad choice for a number between 0-100.
And you made me curious: in what context did you have to calculate percentages of temperature that were not in Kelvin? Because as soon as percentages and temperatures are close to each other in one sentence the only example I can think of are things like reaction kinetic calculations and those are neither in Celsius nor in Fahrenheit.
You should examine your definition of intuitive. Yes, technically nothing is intuitive it’s just based on what you know because intuition is also based on what you’re used to.
By your logic, if you compare a machine that powers on by pressing a big glowing red button labeled “ON” and one that turns on by you performing the haka in front of a camera while reciting a Shakespeare sonnet backwards you might say that there is no “more intuitive” way to turn on a machine, just one you know better and can perform quicker!
You aren’t reading what you’re replying to because I said in a previous post that it’s easy to get used to Celsius and fahrenheit and there’s no difference to either and I also already said that Celsius is better for science because it’s based on water.
Everything you said can be said about Celsius scale as well.
At this point you’re just lying or further proving that you didn’t even read the post you tried to respond patronizingly to. I said that the Fahrenheit scale is intuitive because it’s a 0-100 scale which is similar to other scales we use all the time and works well for our base 10 counting system being a scale essentially between two powers of 10. Neither of that can be said for Celsius and that’s so obvious I think you just didn’t read it before replying.
And hell, on top of all this, I think we should all switch to using Celsius! Because as I mentioned it’s easy to grasp both scales and using Celsius makes understanding a lot of science easier which I think is the only real argument in this arbitrary choice between the two! But I’m out here explaining the use of Fahrenheit because people here can’t grasp my explanation for why people might use it and are acting like they’ve got the defeater to a post they didn’t even read!
By that logic, Americans should use km/h instead of mph. Going 0-100 is much better than 0-60. For the same reason you keep telling us why Fahrenheit is so much more intuitive.
You can go 100 mph
You guys have a lot of Max 100 zones?
Because in km/h, we got lots of those
Also you calculate acceleration using 0-100 mph?
I think the highest speed limit I have seen in America is 85mph, which is around 135km/h. Typical highway speed limits though are 65mph, but everyone goes 5-10 over (105-120km/h).
The nice thing about mph is the whole mile a minute at 60mph. Makes it easy to mentally estimate time of arrival.
Highest I have driven on is 130km/h, but it has no speed enforcement.
What annoys me about that phrasing, is that “how water feels” is quite relevant to how humans feel.
The obvious example is that if it’s below 0°C, it starts freezing, which causes slippery sidewalks, snow, dry air, all that stuff.
But just in general having a feeling how much water will evaporate and later precipitate at certain temperatures, and even stuff like how hot beverages and cooking temperatures are, it’s all still relevant for humans…The obvious example is that if it’s below 0°C, it starts freezing, which causes slippery sidewalks, snow, dry air, all that stuff. But just in general having a feeling how much water will evaporate and later precipitate at certain temperatures, and even stuff like how hot beverages and cooking temperatures are, it’s all still relevant for humans…
that’s an interesting idea, BUT, the boiling point for water also exists under f as well, it’s just 212 f, which if you want to round for convenience, is 200f. 100f is just about half the boiling point of water.
I guess you celsius folks might be more water pilled than the average US citizen, but it’s not like it’s impossible.
100F is just about half
Your scale in water terms starts at 32. 100 is nowhere near halfway between 32 and 212
the celsius scale literally covers 55% of the range of the fahrenheit scale. I’d say “about half” is perfectly reasonable.
granted, it skews since you’re starting on the low end. The figure is more like 122f right in the middle, which is, not great, but i wasn’t going to calculate the half boiling point as i’ve literally never seen it be relevant anywhere lol.
Celcius degrees are quite a bit larger than Fahrenheit degrees. 0 to 100C is much larger than 0 to 100F so I don’t get what you mean by Celcius covering about half of Fahrenheit. In any case neither scale runs out of numbers high or low
my main point was that accuracy matters a lot less with fahrenheit, because it’s so much broader. a range of about 10 degrees fahrenheit is the average subjectively experienced “change” in temperature, at least on the higher end, where there’s more difference between the individual numbers. On the cold side there’s a lot less variance as it meets at about -40 in both systems.
In any case neither scale runs out of numbers high or low
this is very true though, hard to run out of numbers when you can just make more up, although there is an ultimate limit in either direction, due to what temperature actually measures. That’s a physics thing though.
The words you are looking for are that Fahrenheit is more precise. But it’s not as there are an infinity of numbers between any two integers.
My thermometer at work which I use for health and safety stuff reports temperature to two decimal places. Had we wanted more precision we could have gone with twenty decimal places. In too big or too small metric units we use multipliers - metres are too small for long distances so we use kilometres (thousands of metres), metres are too big for construction so we use millimetres (thousandths of metres)
Where Celcius degrees are too big, people (scientists, since whole degrees or a single decimal is enough for everyone else) use milikelvins
