It turns out that more technology in cars isn’t necessarily something customers want, and it’s not really improving their driving experience. We know my thoughts on the matter, but I’ll do my best to stay impartial on this latest survey from JD Power that shows most customers don’t appreciate technology in cars unless they can see a clear benefit to them.
JD Power’s 2024 U.S. Tech Experience Index Study evaluated over 81,000 drivers’ experience with “advanced vehicle technologies” in 2024 model year vehicles after 90 days of ownership, It turned out to be a pretty mixed bag when it came to what people liked using. There are a number of tech features that customers like using because they feels that it answers their needs, but at the same time there is a whole lot that don’t get used very often or are continually annoying, according to the survey.
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I’m ok with a decent amount of tech in a car. Like I’m fine being able to connect my phone to the car and have android auto take over the infotainment system.
But the HVAC stuff needs to be buttons I can access/control without looking or very minimal looking.
I don’t want/need my car to have a SIM card, or connect to wifi, and report what I’m doing. If they want to do that, then they can give me the car for free and I’ll drive it around letting them collect my driving habits.
Edit: Oh, and I’m sure as hell not paying some subscription fee on top of the price of the car.
Good news, lawmakers in the US finally started looking at this issue.
Bad news: probably will take years for change
There are numerous headlines like:
118th Congress on track to become one of the least productive in US history
So good luck with that.
There’s activity at the state level too in multiple states. I heard something about California, then not a lot. Bunch of articles about Texas.
The company I work at is tangentially related to car company data collection. And this week, all employees received an email that we were legally required to save all records newer than 2005 related to a specific car company’s onboard data collection service.
So it does seem like the investigation has already got a subpoena or smth.
General Motors
Is the car company involved, yes.
I love my subaru outback. It’s a great car. It does all the car things exceptionally well. It holds a lot of stuff. Snow, mud, fuck you it’s all pavement to me baybeee.
I fucking hate my Outback’s climate control, entertainment, map, and information screen. I understand newer models have improved slightly. It’s still awful. The only good thing about that fucking screen is that I can turn everything on from my phone. Literally every other function is awful to try to access and use while you’re driving.
Got a '24 outback late last year. For the most part I love it-it’s comfortable, holds my giant dogs and it’s way better to drive in bad weather than my previous car.
I’d read reports on subaru forums that infotainment was bad, so my expectations were low. But even basic stuff isn’t functional. It has gotten less responsive over the months (reminder: we’ve had it just barely a year). The screen has several seconds of lag with every touch, and sometimes controls just don’t work at all. I don’t like that we have to use it for temperature control, and android auto integration is clunky (though that may not be Subaru’s fault).
Add that to the horrifying data collection practices and it makes me question ever getting a Subaru again.
Is it possible to get some kind of firmware update that you may not have received?
kagis
This Reddit thread makes it sound like you need to manually do it or the dealer will do it as part of the regular maintenance. Not sure if this is specific to that model year.
https://old.reddit.com/r/Subaru_Outback/comments/18cjt00/software_update_december_2023/
Reminds me I need to update mine!! Did you have to take this in to the dealer to get it updated or did you do it yourself?
Dealer did that
What does the dealer charge?
I am not sure. It was part of my regular maintenance.
And
Does this help the PAINFULLY slow response in the screen?
Yes, it does! The lags are very short now, if there are any at all.
The people there are also complaining about the touchscreen instead of physical controls.
Hey good catch! I’ll try to ring my dealership to see if I can get that checked out during my next oil change visit.
Thanks
I just bought a forester a few months ago, and my 2 stipulations on the cars I was looking at were all-wheel drive because I live in snow country, and a car no newer than 2018 (IIRC) because that was the year car companies largely switched from manual controls to a 16-inch screen with everything, including climate control, accessed from an app.
When I was talking to the guy at the dealership I bought it from and mentioned how much I disliked the new screens, he outright said, “Yeah, a lot of people don’t like them.”
Similar complaint here. We were ready to replace our 2011 outback and decided it would make sense to get something at least a bit more modern. Loved our outback, and honestly would have bought another if it weren’t for that damn screen.
After getting a gander at that thing, we seemingly confused (or probably just disappointed) our salesman by insisting we wanted the most simple, stripped-down style console they had to offer. Apparently we’re not the most common customers, but i know I’m kinda weird so fair enough. After he went back inside to find out which models they had on the lot that might fit that description, the only one that had a “simple” console was the base model Forester. It was just not enough to transition over from our comfy 6-cyl beast that just had a 6-cd changer with a 1-inch-tall screen and an aux jack, but everything was operated by buttons. Even the rear view mirror had a clever backup camera integrated into it. Makes more sense that way, imo. It was everything we needed and only a smidge more.
I really wish we could have just bought a newer model of the exact same car feature-wise… That outback was a great car 🙂
As of 2022, Toyota still put physical buttons on their HVAC system and audio system.
I know because, against my advice, my wife bought a Toyota Rav4 Hybrid in 2022. I can’t tell her how to spend her money, but at least the car she got didn’t have some of this other bullshit.
Hey, at least she picked one of the most reliable cars on the market.
It’s a good car. I just wish she hadn’t decided to buy one in 2022. It’s bad enough to buy a new car now, it was worse then.
I have a 2008 tundra a coworker just bought a new one so I asked for a ride. It was nice to see under the enormous center display, the HVAC controls!
Out of curiosity, why didn’t you want her to buy that specific vehicle?
I didn’t think she should have bought any car. Her old car worked. It wasn’t in the best shape in the world, but it was fine. And 2022 was a terrible year for buying a car.
When carplay works, it’s great. But mine constantly has issues connecting to phones. Both my wife’s iPhone, and my Android. Both are flagships that are a couple years old, so still very current and sufficient specs.
Meanwhile, my old aftermarket Bluetooth radio connects every time with no issue.
I do like the convenience of GPS and audio on the car tablet when it works. But honestly, it’s a distraction when it’s being fussy.
Exactly my experience.
Phone dash mount all the way!
I’m ok with a decent amount of tech in a car. Like I’m fine being able to connect my phone to the car and have android auto take over the infotainment system.
This reminds me of my 2016 Honda Civic. It had just the right amount of tech.
If they want to do that, then they can give me the car for free and I’ll drive it around letting them collect my driving habits.
I mean, that’s kind of what they’re doing in that having another revenue stream will reduce the car price relative to what would have been the case if they couldn’t do so.
If some people want to make that trade, I think that they should have the option to do so.
I don’t personally want to make that trade myself, though.
I disagree, most of these subscriptions options are all built in and “enabled” if bought. There ain’t no car manufacturers looking to reduce their car prices for us. It’s profit above everything
give me buttons and dials, not touch screens and ai. I want to drive, not check social media. I’ll be keeping my 2009 until the engine locks up.
Yep. I’m hoping my current car holds out until this 'smartphone on wheels" trend reverses.
‘smartphone on wheels’*
*Apple CarPlay and Android Auto not supported.
Honestly that’s all I want out of the center screen.
I like my 2018 Outbacks layout. Physical controls for AC, knob for volume, and a reasonable touch screen. The gauge cluster has a small screen in the center that shows me some basic info I’d like to see like tire pressure, MPG, etc.
I’m in this scenario, too.
When I needed a new car in 2019 I somehow found a six speed manual Crosstrek that has all physical buttons for climate and radio/volume that also has a backup cam and a touchscreen for CarPlay/Android Auto.
It’s perfect.
Peak technology enjoyment in a car includes
- multiple zone ac
- heated/ventilated seats
- real buttons and not FUCKING CAPACITIVE TOUCH
- android auto/apple car play
There’s some other minor tech that’s fairly nice that I haven’t seen in cheaper cars. Lights under the door to light up the ground on dark nights for when you’re getting out. Just solid utilitarian tech right there.
My single piece of favorite car tech is the cruise control that follows the cars ahead of you and brakes when necessary. I barely use my feet for driving anymore.
I am entirely the opposite. I think cruise just makes driving less engaging and more boring.
Ideally I want everything to be manual, I even control every individual wiper swipe a lot of times if I am just driving along on a highway. Less boring, more engaging. Means I am more attentative on the road.
I do however understand I am a minority.
Fine for short trips, less fun on hours+ long drives. It’s nice having options!
I don’t know what is considered a long trip for you but to me it’s 6 hours plus, which I deal with no problems. I just think it makes driving more boring when there’s less stuff to be in control of.
I live far away from my family and my wifes family so we drive a lot of 6-12 hour drives and I always drive the full stint. Doesn’t bother me but I am not everyone.
There are far more important things than feeling bored when you’re transporting irreplaceable human beings.
Boredom leads to poor focus and tiredness and is highly relevant for safely manning a vehicle
After having used both Android Auto and Apple Car Play.
I really prefer having a good phone mount, that puts my phone in a glance-able place near the wheel.
That, and quality Bluetooth Audio.I’ve been driving spoiled with Lane Keep Assist. I’d like to continue to keep that as a thing in all cars.
Also, I used a Ford Escape as a rental this weekend, and holy shit I hate having to wait for the startup animation to complete so I can finally mess with the A/C and have it going on full blast after sitting in the hot sun all day. My Santa Cruz has actual buttons for all the climate control stuff and I had no idea I’d miss it so much until now.
Lane keep assist is annoying AF when you live in a place where you’re required by law to cross the double yellow when going around bicycles. You get in a steering wheel fight with the car until you find the menu to temporarily disable it. After next stop-start cycle mid-errand, it’s on again by default thanks to US law.
I mean just using your turn signal turns it off in most cars…
Maybe do that?
Confusing unnecessary signaling that others could misinterpret when you don’t intend on turning.
Did you even take Driver’s Ed?
Also, adaptive cruise control
I’m fine with adaptive cruise, however, I would also like to be able to turn it off quickly and easily if the situation calls for it.
Tapping the brakes has immediately turned off cruise control in every vehicle I’ve ever driven.
I was referring specifically to the adaptive part, and going back to dumb cruise. I wasn’t clear, my apologies.
Can you explain a scenario where that would be necessary? Given that adaptive cruise slows you down below your target speed to follow traffic all I can see that doing is either nothing on an open road, or accelerating you into the vehicle in front of you.
I use it all the time on the highway.
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Based on this MKBHD/Auto Zone video the way to get real buttons and sensible features is to buy a minivan.
I’d say that that kind of imposes a size restriction, but honestly, the crossovers that everyone seems to buy are about the same size as those these days anyway.
Nobody is mentioning heads-up displays? That’s peak tech. The info is right there without having to move your eyes off the road.
because barely anyone even knows about HUDs, since there are barely any vehicles in the “won’t cost you both kidneys” price segment with HUDs in them…
…but yes, they really should be in every car. it’s just a no-brainer for safety, for the exact reason you said: simply having your speed right in your field of view alone is worth it!
I feel like a HUD is only in expensive cars because it’s a very useful feature people actually want.
My current ride is peak technology imho:
- Crank windows
- Cold, manually adjustable seats
- 5 speed transmission
- Knobs and levers, minimal buttons
- MSRP under $10k–
How about the unnecessary tech that just shouldn’t be allowed.
- Doors that are not primarily manual to open or unlock.
- Touchscreen of any type. I’m okay with capacitive touch buttons but they should be in a fixed location and physically distinguishable from other surfaces.
- Electronic e-brake
- Replacement of any of the main driving functions with anything that is not physical and tactile (turn signals, windshield wipers, headlights)
At least in the US I feel like technology has leapfrogged regulation.
Electronic e-brake
I hate electronic e-brakes. How am I supposed to impress women with handbrake turns without a hand brake?
That’s because they’re putting dumb shit in. We have the technology for example to -
Have high beams shine around other cars. (Regulators actually fucked this up)
Put all the speed and other needed information on the windshield.
Put a thermal image on the windshield so you can see the road as if it were daylight.
Use “fly by wire” controls instead of the same control scheme as a Model T.
And quite a bit more. But no instead we have the world’s worst mix of UI/UX and software in an attempt to save money and sell data.
Fly by wire would be a terrible design for a car, I’ve seen people driving on space saver tires or with taped up windows for months. If people already just ignore warning lights until something physically stops them from driving then at least having a physical steering column means there’s still control after the power steering fails so that they don’t go straight on into oncoming traffic.
On your other point about still using the same control systems as a model T, modern cars don’t. Hydraulic steering came around in the 50s and almost all modern cars have electric power steering, the model T had completely unassisted rack and pinion steering. I can’t find any definite answer on what the last car without any hydraulic steering was but I’d definitely like to find out if anyone knows.
You got me curious and found this article from 2019, it looks like the Alfa Romeo 4C didn’t have power steering. It was discontinued in 2020.
Physical buttons please and thank you
I just found out that the Tesla 2024 Model 3 has a gear selector that’s incorporated into the touchscreen… I saw it (someone I know bought one) and I cannot understand.
I drove it, it’s as bad as it sounds. They got rid of the stalks on the sides of the steering column too, the turn signals are buttons on the front of the steering wheel, which is even worse imo.
“You know what would be fun, fucking with 20 years of muscle memory tied to my ability to drive safely” -no one
-
no oneElonI heard you can buy aftermarket stalks now
Yup.
I refuse to buy any vehicle made after 2015, and even that’s quite a bit newer than I’d like.
I wouldn’t mind having tech in my car, but I have a zero-tolerance policy for proprietary spyware-infested shit. Therefore, I can’t buy any vehicle made after 2015.
I’d like to have a double-DIN car computer with a Raspberry Pi, RTL-SDR (for the radio) and OBD2 connection, but haven’t gotten around to making one yet.
And only automakers are surprised by this. This last time I bought a car, i avoided all the new ones and just got a reliable one from 2013. Fuuuuck all the tattletale noises, fuck all the touch screen interface bullshit, and fuck their ridiculous asking prices.
Some is great and much appreciated. For instance I love the things that takes the camera feeds and creates a simulated top down view. But some things are just useless and needless.
Power windows, Bluetooth audio systems, seat warmers.
These are all really positive tech advancements in my lifetime.
Touch screen interfaces, power door handles (without a manual override), firmware disables features or limitations that are determined by the DLC you purchase from your dealership…
These are fucking bullshit and almost no one I know likes them.
It is insane how anti-consumer cars have gotten.
power door handles (without a manual override)
I’m fairly certain that’s illegal. In the US at least.
There have been stories that sound like it’s a thing. But those have always been people not knowing where the mechanical release is located.Points at Tesla
They appear not to be even though it’s extremely irrational. I might clarify that I think a single mechanism should be the door release and Teslas specifically bury their manual overrides within the body of the door itself in an area that most users are unaware of.
I love my car for the fact it doesn’t do anything crazy. Buttons and switches for everything, bluetooth for music, and a minimalist infotainment system that may as well only be there for the phone pairing process.
I might be in the minority, but I hate Apple CarPlay/Android Auto. I don’t want anything fancy, just music. I don’t want all the bells and whistles of my phone, just music.
All 4runners still reigning supreme with chonky ass thicc boi buttons and dials. Give me Android auto capabilities on a small screen, backup camera, and rear parking sensors. That’s it.
My wife drives a 2023 loaded Kia Sportage. The thing is basically a smartphone on wheels. Giant dash screen with all the car controls buried in it, touch screen climate controls that double as touch screen audio/volume controls. If I want to change the AC temp I have to take my eyes off the road for a few seconds. Also a subscription service if you want to use any of the actual useful functions like remote start, remote climate control, remote door lock/unlock, sentry mode, etc. I hate where cars are at today.
I have a '24 Subaru that is similar but I don’t really mind it. There are physical buttons for the temperature but every other ac control is digital. No reason to look at the screen while driving since there are audio controls on the wheel plus voice commands so I usually turn it off once I set certain settings that won’t save for some reason. I gotta set them every time I start the car. That’s the most frustrating thing about it. Having a map available has helped me a few times so I didn’t have to pull out my phone to look. It was also a decent price around $30k.
I have a 2015 Tacoma. Toyota has abandoned the infotainment system. There is no way to update the navigation. I wish that when manufacturers stopped updating the infotainment system they were required to make it open source, and give a final update adding android auto and apple car play.
I have a Kia Niro and have a similarish gripe about the switching ac/media controls, but the media controls are also on the wheel so it’s not that bad if you leave it on the temp control mode mostly.
I want fucking buttons!
Physical buttons are simply better.
I wonder if engineers protested getting rid of the buttons. Who’s responsible for that terrible design trend?
We need some serious federal regulation against bullshit in vehicles.
Every function that is normal to use while in motion needs a physical button.
Absolutely no fucking spyware reporting back to the manufacturer.
I don’t want to ban it. Some people apparently want it (well, or at least the price reduction that comes with the auto companies having a new revenue source). I’m hesitant to try to impose my preferences on them.
I just want an option to pay regular price for a car myself and not have everything I do be data-mined. If it costs $N to pay your costs and make your profit, just charge me $N. I just want to be the customer in the relationship, not the product.
They operated just fine like that for decades. I don’t see a need for that to change.
Most of the bullshit exists because of federal regulations requirements that they ran away with. Even backup cameras (which are arguably useful) because of shape/size/economy restrictions causing rear windows to be less easy to see out of.
No shape of window will let you see a toddler directly behind your car.
Backup camera was mandated because of stronger pillar requirements to increase protection in rollovers, which was mandated because of an increase in rollover crashes, which was caused by an increase in SUV and Truck sales, which was caused by an increase in consumer demand for trucks and SUVs, which was caused by an increase in marketing for Trucks and SUVs which was caused by decrease in (relative) profit margin on sedans/coupes/wagons which was caused by the light truck loophole in CAFE standards, which was put in by manufacturers in the first place.
So I blame the corporations, their lobbyists, and the payroll politicians for it.
Backup cams are great though, quit complaining.
I like having Siri in my car when she works. Like when my phone properly wirelessly connects. But when it doesn’t, I hate it, and would be better without it.
Also why the hell can’t CarPlay use the radio, when the car has a radio. Why can’t those two things talk to each other. Fucking dumb.
