To somehow suggest that the sound of अ (ə) becomes आ (ɑː) is ridiculous. It’s not कामला (jaundice, billrubin), it’s कमला (lotus, Goddess Lakshmi). Use an IPA reader to check the sound you’ve provided, versus mine.
Her name isn’t कमला, it’s Kamala. It’s written in the latin alphabet on her American birth certificate. She pronounces her own name as ˈkɑːmələ. It doesn’t matter what the similar-sounding common name from a different country used by different people is. Her name is Kamala. ˈkɑːmələ.
It’s written in the latin alphabet on her American birth certificate
So is mine and every citizen born in India, a non-English country. Your point being that people get to decide how to butcher other’s name because it was *checks character* written in Latin?
She pronounces her own name as ˈkɑːmələ.
PoC immigrants are forced to anglicize their names. Koreans and Chinese folks are forced to have a alternative English name. Indians are forced to deal with butchered pronounciations, or pick a shorter nickname. But hey, thanks for being a part of the problem.
It doesn’t matter what the similar-sounding common name from a different country used by different people is.
It does, and this behaviour speaks volume about how much you respect other people and their culture. John isn’t pronounced as Yohn in non-English speaking areas, right?
First of all, If we anglicized her name, we would get 'kəmɑːlə, not ˈkɑːmələ, so that argument makes no sense. English has a tendancy to stress the second to last syllable of a name or word, and shift the vowel there accordingly. I will admit that you’re right in that the birth certificate thing isn’t the best example of what determines a name. Trans people, or anyone else who wishes to change their name from what their parents wrote at birth, are completely valid in their new name. But the point I was making is that she hasn’t embraced the Devanagari spelling of her name, the way she has the Latin spelling. She’s chosen a pronunciation of that spelling for herself, and been vocal about how she wants it said. Respect it, or shut up.
Second, she’s not an immigrant. She was born in the US and is an American citizen by birth, which is (unfortunately) a requirement to run for president. Her name may originate from a similar sounding name from a different language, but that similar sounding name is not her name. The experiences of people who were happy with their name and were later forced to change it is a separate issue. To insist she change her name to fit your perception of what she should be called is exactly the thing you’re chastising me for doing. Which again, I’m not. I’m supporting her in the name she chooses to use.
Third, “John” is another example that actually proves why your argument is wrong. It comes from the old hebrew יְהוֹחָנָן. But as other cultures adopted the name and changed it to be their own over hundreds of years, small changes turned it into Ιωάννης in Greek, Johannes in Latin, Jean in French, and eventually John in modern English. Why is the same thing happening to Kamala such an issue for you?
Her name is what she says her name is, and the circumstances that led her to choose her name are MORE VALID than your opinion of what her name should be. End of discussion.
Trans people, or anyone else who wishes to change their name from what their parents wrote at birth, are completely valid in their new name.
Whataboutism to twist and call me transphobic? Why do you mention trans people here? ‘Pronouns’ and ‘pronounce’ have nothing in common.
Third, “John” is another example that actually proves why your argument is wrong. It comes from the old hebrew יְהוֹחָנָן. But as other cultures adopted the name and changed it to be their own over hundreds of years, small changes turned it into Ιωάννης in Greek, Johannes in Latin, Jean in French, and eventually John in modern English. Why is the same thing happening to Kamala such an issue for you?
Because that change was organic, and took hundreds of years? Are you going to conveniently ignore that?
Her name is what she says her name is
…while ignoring all the nuances, that is, her conditioning by a society that has taught her to internalize hatred towards her own identity? Attitude like that of your is the reason why second and third generation immigrants suffer from the pain of having a cultural disconnect, making them feel like an alien - being discriminated in their own country, and being a foreigner to their own culture. And now, you’re trying to gaslight a native speaker?
I truly cannot stress enough how utterly socially unacceptable it is to correct someone’s pronunciation of their own name. In this respect, names are different from other kinds of words. Please reconsider this embarrassing position of yours.
Consider keeping this imperialist opinion to yourself. The last thing I need is someone bullying me into accepting how words from my culture and language is spoken, and how I need to accommodate to your inconveniences. It may be socially acceptable for you to make other PoCs feel all weird and uncomfortable about themselves, but you can’t bully me into this.
“Imperialism is when you respect someone’s self identification” 🤡
If you pronounce it with all schwa vowels but you speak in a Hindi accent I’m sure nobody would bat an eye. As a white dude, I would probably sound more like I’m making fun of her Indian heritage if I imitated a Hindi accent to say her name as closely to how you say I should say it as possible. But in an American accent, this pronunciation is not accurate. It makes her name sound like “Cuh-muh-luh”, which sounds more like a rude nickname related to semen than an earnest attempt to preserve her name’s origin. Even ignoring my own arguments about why I want to say it the way she says it, it’s just not
Most people can’t control their voice with the precision needed to accurately preserve the original phonetics of everyone’s names EXACTLY as they should be said. They can make the sounds they need for their language and very few more. Changes in pronunciation are inevitable, not imperialist. Imperialism would be if I went to India and insisted that everyone there named Kamala pronounced their name the way my Vice President does. Unfortunately the British did basically this, but that’s not what’s happening when a willing immigrant’s child chooses for themselves what to be called.
Insular brain-rot specimen over here with a limited capability to understand nuances, I know it hurts your head when I have to make you empathize with PoCs, and how they’re tired of correcting people all the time to the point that they give up and pick a approximate pronounciation, but clowns like you will do their best to decide what’s right for them, and at the same time, suppress what people from the same group have to say about it. Hilarious, right?
The last thing I need is someone bullying me into accepting how words from my culture and language is spoken, and how I need to accommodate to your inconveniences
Get fucked. We’re talking about a person who has a name and has a preference to how it is pronounced. No one gives two shits or a single fuck how you feel about that.
A “preference” that is a farce, and was shoved on her, and many other PoC, and which they had to accept after getting tired of repeated mispronunciation, you fucking dickhead. Do I have to stress this multiple times?
I’m an American who lives in Germany. The name my parents chose begins with [dʒ], but I haven’t introduced or thought of myself like that in years. My name therefore begins with [j].
It’s really cool that you’re informed about the language that her name stems from, but that’s not the name she uses.
To somehow suggest that the sound of अ (ə) becomes आ (ɑː) is ridiculous. It’s not कामला (jaundice, billrubin), it’s कमला (lotus, Goddess Lakshmi). Use an IPA reader to check the sound you’ve provided, versus mine.
Her name isn’t कमला, it’s Kamala. It’s written in the latin alphabet on her American birth certificate. She pronounces her own name as ˈkɑːmələ. It doesn’t matter what the similar-sounding common name from a different country used by different people is. Her name is Kamala. ˈkɑːmələ.
So is mine and every citizen born in India, a non-English country. Your point being that people get to decide how to butcher other’s name because it was *checks character* written in Latin?
PoC immigrants are forced to anglicize their names. Koreans and Chinese folks are forced to have a alternative English name. Indians are forced to deal with butchered pronounciations, or pick a shorter nickname. But hey, thanks for being a part of the problem.
It does, and this behaviour speaks volume about how much you respect other people and their culture. John isn’t pronounced as Yohn in non-English speaking areas, right?
First of all, If we anglicized her name, we would get 'kəmɑːlə, not ˈkɑːmələ, so that argument makes no sense. English has a tendancy to stress the second to last syllable of a name or word, and shift the vowel there accordingly. I will admit that you’re right in that the birth certificate thing isn’t the best example of what determines a name. Trans people, or anyone else who wishes to change their name from what their parents wrote at birth, are completely valid in their new name. But the point I was making is that she hasn’t embraced the Devanagari spelling of her name, the way she has the Latin spelling. She’s chosen a pronunciation of that spelling for herself, and been vocal about how she wants it said. Respect it, or shut up.
Second, she’s not an immigrant. She was born in the US and is an American citizen by birth, which is (unfortunately) a requirement to run for president. Her name may originate from a similar sounding name from a different language, but that similar sounding name is not her name. The experiences of people who were happy with their name and were later forced to change it is a separate issue. To insist she change her name to fit your perception of what she should be called is exactly the thing you’re chastising me for doing. Which again, I’m not. I’m supporting her in the name she chooses to use.
Third, “John” is another example that actually proves why your argument is wrong. It comes from the old hebrew יְהוֹחָנָן. But as other cultures adopted the name and changed it to be their own over hundreds of years, small changes turned it into Ιωάννης in Greek, Johannes in Latin, Jean in French, and eventually John in modern English. Why is the same thing happening to Kamala such an issue for you?
Her name is what she says her name is, and the circumstances that led her to choose her name are MORE VALID than your opinion of what her name should be. End of discussion.
https://youtu.be/GVGfzbP7WBY
Whataboutism to twist and call me transphobic? Why do you mention trans people here? ‘Pronouns’ and ‘pronounce’ have nothing in common.
Because that change was organic, and took hundreds of years? Are you going to conveniently ignore that?
…while ignoring all the nuances, that is, her conditioning by a society that has taught her to internalize hatred towards her own identity? Attitude like that of your is the reason why second and third generation immigrants suffer from the pain of having a cultural disconnect, making them feel like an alien - being discriminated in their own country, and being a foreigner to their own culture. And now, you’re trying to gaslight a native speaker?
It does not take a genius to look at the butchered transliteration(s) - (funny how there’s no agreement on a singular pronounciation?) versus the original pronunciation on Wiktionary.
I truly cannot stress enough how utterly socially unacceptable it is to correct someone’s pronunciation of their own name. In this respect, names are different from other kinds of words. Please reconsider this embarrassing position of yours.
Consider keeping this imperialist opinion to yourself. The last thing I need is someone bullying me into accepting how words from my culture and language is spoken, and how I need to accommodate to your inconveniences. It may be socially acceptable for you to make other PoCs feel all weird and uncomfortable about themselves, but you can’t bully me into this.
“Imperialism is when you respect someone’s self identification” 🤡
If you pronounce it with all schwa vowels but you speak in a Hindi accent I’m sure nobody would bat an eye. As a white dude, I would probably sound more like I’m making fun of her Indian heritage if I imitated a Hindi accent to say her name as closely to how you say I should say it as possible. But in an American accent, this pronunciation is not accurate. It makes her name sound like “Cuh-muh-luh”, which sounds more like a rude nickname related to semen than an earnest attempt to preserve her name’s origin. Even ignoring my own arguments about why I want to say it the way she says it, it’s just not
Most people can’t control their voice with the precision needed to accurately preserve the original phonetics of everyone’s names EXACTLY as they should be said. They can make the sounds they need for their language and very few more. Changes in pronunciation are inevitable, not imperialist. Imperialism would be if I went to India and insisted that everyone there named Kamala pronounced their name the way my Vice President does. Unfortunately the British did basically this, but that’s not what’s happening when a willing immigrant’s child chooses for themselves what to be called.
Insular brain-rot specimen over here with a limited capability to understand nuances, I know it hurts your head when I have to make you empathize with PoCs, and how they’re tired of correcting people all the time to the point that they give up and pick a approximate pronounciation, but clowns like you will do their best to decide what’s right for them, and at the same time, suppress what people from the same group have to say about it. Hilarious, right?
Get fucked. We’re talking about a person who has a name and has a preference to how it is pronounced. No one gives two shits or a single fuck how you feel about that.
A “preference” that is a farce, and was shoved on her, and many other PoC, and which they had to accept after getting tired of repeated mispronunciation, you fucking dickhead. Do I have to stress this multiple times?
You just want to be argumentative.
I’m an American who lives in Germany. The name my parents chose begins with [dʒ], but I haven’t introduced or thought of myself like that in years. My name therefore begins with [j].
It’s really cool that you’re informed about the language that her name stems from, but that’s not the name she uses.