Thanks for sharing that video. It’s one of the most ambitious ones I’ve seen out there. However, if I understood correctly, only average fps is compared right? So not the (more important) 1% or 0.1% lows.

Thanks for clarifying!

That’s pretty strong language

I agree. But in this case it was 100% justified as OP just (hopefully reversibly) destroyed their installation.

and what I was responding to.

Thanks for properly nuancing my stance. Though, perhaps consider to do so right away next time 😜.

Perhaps you were being hyperbolic.

It was deliberate. But I wouldn’t refer to it as hyperbolic. Perhaps more in the style of an elder sibling scolding their younger sibling to be better next time 😉. Apologies if I missed the mark, though.

😂. Thanks for the clarification!

Yes. Not everything I have is installed through the Google store.

I understand from this, that it is implied, that the majority of what you have installed, has been done through the Google store though. By extension, I assume that -by default- you entrust installing software to the Google store. Hence, if all of the above is correct, then you actually don’t commit to ‘the Windows-way’ by default; but only by exception. Which is exactly my point.

But you’re acting like one needs to have some expert skills to install things outside of the package manager.

I feel you’re reading too much into it. In my first comment, I didn’t even mention package managers. In the second comment, I only wrote -and I quote- “Those should first and foremost be consulted. And for 99% of the cases; this is the intended, supposed and supported way of installing said software.”. I don’t see where expert skills are implied if one chooses to go outside of it. Please feel free to help me understand where I did.

It’s generally preferred for a number of reasons but it’s not bad “per se” to install something outside of it.

I never implied otherwise.

On your phone, do you search the software you want to install through your browser? After which, do you download the install script and try to run it?

No, of course not. Instead, you pay a visit to the accompanied software center. Searching, installing and upgrading all occur through that.

Similarly, on Linux, your chosen distro comes with a (or perhaps multiple) package manager(s) and a software center. Those should first and foremost be consulted. And for 99% of the cases; this is the intended, supposed and supported way of installing said software.

This should suffice for the sake of brevity. If you’ve still got questions, please feel free to ask them.

1, directly from the website Link

I hope you’ve now understood why -on Linux- you should never try to install stuff like how you were used to on Windows. Unless, you 100% know what you’re doing.

Thank you for sharing your experiences!

May I ask you what made you pursue an Arch installation in the first place?

Your reply is much appreciated! Even though I am saddened by the content. And apologies for the upcoming long reply. I thank you in advance for reading through it all.

Imo

Thank you for weakening it with “Imo”! To clarify; it seemed as if the “authority” in “appeal to authority” was conflated with content creators. If this wasn’t an appeal to authority in the first place, then please feel free to dismiss my earlier stated sentence.

Normally, I would have asked for clarification in order to prevent possible miscommunication. Unfortunately, after our first serious attempt at reconciling our differences failed miserably, I have instead chosen for a more direct approach in hopes of making it more accessible. It’s also more prone to being misunderstood as confrontational, aggressive et cetera. But, if even my super sweet approach in the earlier mentioned conversation failed, I don’t see why I should make it less accessible for all involved parties if it doesn’t benefit either of us.

this shows your aggressive inability to accept opinions different to yours

I may as well accuse you of doing the same. But…, I don’t. But somehow I’m perceived as the villain. I simply fail to understand.

On Lemmy, I engage for one reason, and for one reason only; to arrive at a mutual understanding. This manifests itself in multiple ways:

• I’m interested in the communities output on a certain query and engage with them through a post I create.
• I’m introduced to a new concept through a post/comment -> Search engines don’t yield anything useful -> I ask a question in hopes of learning something new -> And hopefully that engagement yields new information for me; I’m primarily on the receiving end of ‘profit’
• Someone poses something that I don’t agree with or don’t understand -> I engage in hopes of my understanding being proven wrong; as that results in the most new information; hence most profit -> Most often, it’s somewhere in between; I might get a new perspective on something, but not too crazy. At times, though, the person I was engaging with had some notions that were not entirely backed up; hence, we both end up learning a thing or two
• Misinformation or fake news or misunderstanding or whatever known false fact is shared -> I engage in hopes of combating false notions. No profit; but you gotta do what you gotta do
• Question is asked, I happen to know an answer that might be helpful -> I contribute. No profit; but contributions are required to foster a nice community

To be clear; I love to accept valid criticism. Especially, if they provide me with new insights and polish my own ideas/notions. Heck, I’ve even been complimented on how I engage with them in one of our first interactions. And, if you’ve noticed, this very conversation below our current post is not very different. I just ask you to back up your claims so that I may learn from them. I want to accept them; new knowledge/insights/profit et cetera. But I can’t simply accept your claims on the basis of nothing. That doesn’t make any sense. That’s not how epistemology works.

even if they are obviously more true.

If they’re “obviously more true”, then it should have been obviously easy to prove their truth. But, I’ve yet to receive a proof, even after I’ve explicitly asked you. Or, conversely, proof my falsehood. That’s basically the problem at hand: you’re less sensitive to back up your claims; even when pressed to do so. Instead, you choose to do whatever you did (or tried) in your most recent reply.

Or, I don’t know, ask me how I’m so sure of my own convictions/judgements/ideas. But, and that’s very curious; I don’t recall you ever asking me a question. Isn’t that the most obvious indication that I’m actively trying to engage with your ideas and your output? While you seem to be completely devoid of that. And, somehow, I’ve become the one that’s regarded as possessing “aggressive inability to accept opinions different to yours, even if they are obviously more true.”. Sorry, I simply can’t take this serious 😅.

At this point I’m asking you to stop stalking me and making fun of me

Fam, you got some hate-boner towards Fedora, ‘immutable’ distros and especially their intersection; Fedora Atomic. Either educate yourself on them and act accordingly, or simply stop spreading misinformation. Either way, you’ll never hear from me again. Related point; simply don’t spread misinformation. Period.

making fun of me

I fail to see how I am even making fun of you. If you perceive ‘pressing to back up claims’ as making fun of you, then… I simply don’t know what to say.

Can I run KDE and Gnome on bazzite?

Both GNOME and KDE Plasma are supported on Bazzite.

How can I install and manage multiple images?

Multiple images can only coexist as follows:

• Dual-boot
• Rebase to second image -> pin second image with sudo ostree admin pin <insert digit> -> rebase back to original image. From now on, you can access this second image from GRUB. It’s recommended to designate a different user to the second image; and only access it through that. While what has been just described technically works, and you could even keep the second image up to date with a super cumbersome upgrade path, managing a system like this is not supported and could lead to unforeseen circumstances. Though, it is valid to pin your original image -> test another image through rebasing (and a new designated user) -> rollback to original image. Pinning the original image is not necessary, but I like to play safe. Note that rpm-ostree reset might be needed sometimes for rebasing.

Now I suspect that perhaps the game freeze wouldn’t happen with Gnome either. So I want to have both on bazzite, but can’t figure it out.

So, IIUC, you’re just interested to know if this problem persists on GNOME or not. So, consider the following:

• Pin your current deployment with sudo ostree admin pin 0.
• Create a new user, but don’t use it yet.
• Rebase to Bazzite’s GNOME image.
• Reboot
• Enter through the new user (or create a new one).
• Test out whatever you want.
• Rollback through rpm-ostree rollback
• Reboot
• Continue using your original user.

Thank you for the reply!

Disclaimer: After a couple of revisions and rewrites, I concluded that directness and conciseness was required. If my tone seems confrontational at times, I would like you to know that that’s not my intent. Therefore, in such cases, I would like to friendly request you to assume the best. Thank you.

User-friendly articles

How is uBlue’s documentation not user-friendly? Be specific and come with an example.

forums

Naive in a post-Discord world.

User-friendly articles and answers on forums to absolutely all more or less common issues

Based on what do you imply that uBlue’s discourse and Discord has failed this? Again, be explicit and give an example.

It’s very important for a new user imo. We shouldn’t overwhelm them with choices and technical documentation.

Assumes new users to be sufficiently homogeneous in this regard. The silent majority is not accounted for.

choices

What choices?

If you don’t believe me

I believe there’s definitely some truth in your earlier made statements.

check some content creators. They all agree that we should just give them a popular distro like Mint or Ubuntu and let them progress as fast as they can.

Even if that’s true, I think it’s hilarious to appeal to their consensus 😂.

Recommending Fedora and especially its atomic spins without much documentation to a new user?

To be clear; while OP does mention “Fedora Silverblue” to introduce and contrast atomic distros to traditional ones, they only explicitly recommend uBlue images.

And while it’s by no means as exhaustive as the ArchWiki or Gentoo Wiki, uBlue’s documentation isn’t a slouch either; I’ve seen far worse. If possible, could you name what’s crucially missing?

From your description it sounds like I can change Cinnamon to something else

You definitely can.

is this fairly straightforward to do?

It ain’t bad. However, I would opt for a distro that defaults to the preferred DE. In this case, similarly to Linux Mint, the distro would have to be beginner-friendly, popular, polished and stable^[2]. So, IMO, that would be:

• GNOME^[3]; Pop!_OS or Zorin OS
• KDE Plasma; Tuxedo OS
• Xfce; MX Linux

Note that there are many other DEs. However, the above mentioned DEs (together with Cinnamon) are the most polished and popular. And while there are many other distros through which you might ‘consume’ said DEs, the distros mentioned above are the ones I (personally) like to recommend.

1. At least relatively speaking.
2. Stable is used here in the context of meant to be used without updating for 'extended’ time; except for security updates.
3. While both default to GNOME, they differ pretty significantly in how they’re setup and the associated envisioned workflow.

Wonderfully laid out. Couldn’t agree more.

I’m also curious to find out how effective welcome screens are.

I suppose the most effective would be if the user is told how to act whenever they’re about to commit a ‘mistake’; after which they’re friendly reminded what they should do instead 😅. But I believe that’s a gargantuan effort to effectively gameify the distro 😂. Cool idea though; hopefully some iteration is already in the works.

Perhaps that makes him the perfect candidate 😂.

Hehe, consider to keep us updated 😜.

Thank you for the clarifications!

Regarding what you mentioned on Debian; ultimately, you’re a lot more experienced than I am with it. But, IIUC, Debian 12 should have done a great job at easing (new) users into its ecosystem. Not sure if it’s sufficient though.

I think immutable distros could be great for newbies, but I’m just thinking they’re still so new that if you go online to look for Linux advice or help, most things you’ll find are very much not for immutables and I doubt a true newbie understands what’s what.

I definitely agree. But, I think it’s sufficient to communicate to new uBlue users that they should check uBlue’s own documentation first. And, if they didn’t find the answer there, that they should ask on discourse or on Discord.

I only addressed this for new uBlue users as I don’t think other immutable distros are sufficiently newbie-friendly yet.

I’m well aware that both elementaryOS and its Pantheon DE were innovative and made major strides for user-friendliness a couple of years back. Hence, they rightfully earned a spot among the newbie-friendly distros. However, I might be wrong, but it feels as if they haven’t been able to keep momentum. And therefore lost their significance.

If you think I’m wrong, please feel free to correct me; I would love to be educated on how elementaryOS has kept relevance (if they actually have).

but I don’t think immutable distro are a good place to start.

FWIW, the first distro I used and subsequently daily-drove^[1] was Fedora Silverblue over two years ago. The try-hard in me immediately started off (or at least tried) applying the hardening outlined in Madaidan’s article. After banging my head for a week, I started actually using the system and it has been a very smooth ride ever since. The uBlue images are straight up better when it comes to the OOTB-experience without even mentioning the associated ‘managed’^[2] aspect that comes with it. Therefore, I believe that they’re perfectly suitable. They’re not for everyone, but no distro is anyways.

1. I forgot to mention how simultaneously I quit Windows cold turkey as well.
2. The uBlue images are able to ‘prevent’ breakages that would otherwise affect everyone.

First of all, thank you for this! This effort is very much appreciated and will definitely make it easier to parse through Linux; especially for beginners.

Having said that, some personal nitpicks of mine:

• I absolutely love Fedora. But if it’s named first on your list of beginner distros (presumably due to alphabetical ordering), then it better be easy as hell and work as expected OOTB. Unfortunately, that ain’t the case. Hence, at least mentioning the Howto page of RPM Fusion would have been sensible to combat issues users might experience otherwise.
• I’m fine with the inclusion of openSUSE Aeon, but openSUSE Kalpa is literally in Alpha. Therefore, it’s too early to be recommended.
• I’m personally not very bothered with Fedora Workstation on the list of distros geared towards beginners, while Debian is found on the list of power-user distros that beginners should avoid instead. (I’m a die hard Fedora fanboy anyways.) However, I am curious to your reasoning/justification.
• Alpine Linux was originally envisioned as an embedded-first distribution. Therefore, most of its design choices revolve around that; small, secure, simple et cetera. The way that you describe/depict Alpine Linux, is more in line with how I would for (what I’d refer to as) demonstrative distros like Artix and Devuan.