Senior men have higher rates of suicide than average, and firearms were involved in more than three-quarters of those deaths in 2021, according to a CDC report

    • HubertManne@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      Ironically your comment is incredibly selfish (you need to walk in their shoes) and based on nothing but your imagination. Some may take precautions to minimize cleanup.

      • ChunkMcHorkle@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Yes. Many years ago I had an older relative who was terminally ill do this; he did it with a shotgun but went out somewhere on the property where it was easily cleaned because he didn’t want his wife to have to go through that.

        That’s the nuance that so many of the arguments in this thread are completely missing. No one requires permission to commit suicide. The world is full of sharp things and high places. What they are fighting for is the right to do it cleanly, in a way that does not inflict even more unnecessary suffering upon themselves or their survivors, and allows everyone involved a chance to say goodbye on their own terms.

        I have also known a couple of older people who simply stopped eating and drinking. It worked, it was clean, it gave them most of the clean exit they were seeking for themselves and their families, but it took a week to a week and a half (lengthened at one point by someone who didn’t agree and forced them to drink something as though it were up to them to decide for the dying person). Honestly, if that’s the only choice I have in a similar situation, I will take it as well.

        It’s not about the guns at all. Never has been. It’s about bodily autonomy and the need of others to force their own morality down the throats of the terminally ill.

        • HubertManne@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          thank you. its nice to hear or in this case read someone put it out so sanely and clearly. I do not get why other people feel they should tell someone else that they have to continue to exist because they know better than them.

          • ChunkMcHorkle@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            I’m probably older than the average on Lemmy, and the older you get the more you see of the reality. I’ve had to take care of a dying parent, I’m aging myself, and the older I get the more I can count on personally knowing people that are having to fight massive battles just to make these decisions in regard to their own lives.

            The way I see it, it has absolutely nothing to do with a person and their own choices – which is where the power to decide life or death issues should absolutely reside – but the personal fears of people that are NOT in that situation, but they’ve never addressed their own fears so they need to tamp that down for everyone else. It’s an outsourcing of their own inability to parse the realities of end-of-life situations and care.

            This is not just a mere guess on my part, but something that has come from me actually listening and asking these no-assisted-death-ever people. If you sit down with them casually, and ask them questions about what they’re saying, not acrimoniously but in a way that expresses a real desire to know, “What makes you think ___?” and “Why do you feel so strongly about ___?” inevitably, without exception, by question #3 if not sooner, it’s a personal fear.

            And not just a personal fear, but one completely unaccompanied by any sense of self-awareness that maybe, just perhaps, someone else might have just as strong feelings about their own demise as that person has about preventing them from bringing about that demise a bit sooner. I have had this conversation SOOO many times now, with kids and grandkids and nieces and nephews who are all absolutely adamant that Granny hang on until the very last possible gasp of air when the truth is that Granny fucking hates her life and every time she’s lucid enough to speak she says she wants to die.

            Also, older people generally don’t level this argument: even the ones that are against euthanasia of any form for themselves don’t care too much about other adults making the decisions for themselves, because they’re of an age where they know just how bad it can be. It’s almost always the younger ones who literally cannot grok a living human existence that is so painful and excruciating that someone no longer wants to live it, desperate to believe that there’s medical help, or some kind of fix, or some sort of saving grace, or something. Yeah? Where’s that fix for Alzheimers, or even long term anorexia? Well what about drugs? Nursing homes are not opium dens, lol. And doctors are losing their licenses for prescribing scheduled drugs even when they can prove medical necessity; they’re not going to do it where they cannot.

            There are people in this thread posting exactly that kind of nonsense, and dollars to donuts they’re under the age of 50 themselves. Can’t face death, can’t even think about it, anyone who wants out must be weak and a loser, etc. Nope. The only weak among us are those who cannot bear at all even the thought of someone deciding their own death.

            In a nutshell, it’s just one more societal case of “you have to suffer so that I can feel good about it and not actually have to face my own fears.”

    • derf82@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      It’s also selfish to force people to suffer due to our personal moral scruples. Allow assisted suicide.

    • agitatedpotato@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      1 year ago

      Calling people who suffer from suicidal ideation or committed suicide selfish is exactly like calling kids with down syndrome idiots.

    • Snot Flickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      1 year ago

      That kind of gun-assisted suicide at least, for sure. There’s still deaths of despair that are far from selfish acts, and moreso acts of desperation.

    • AllonzeeLV@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Wall Street is selfish. Taking more profit than you need is selfish.

      These people were desperate. Many likely due to rampant American capitalistic selfishness forcing them to subsist on catfood so business crooks can have 2 vacation homes and 5 expensive cars instead of everyone benefitting from market prosperity.

      Selfishness is America’s brand, but being driven to put a gun in your mouth and pull the trigger isn’t selfishness, it is largely a consequence of other’s selfishness. Our suicide rates are extreme in the supposedly “developed” world because selfish people demand everything and we let them do it at societal expense.

    • Got_Bent@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      I have thought about that. I have a really big back yard. I’d do it back there where my blood stained bone fragments will soak into the ground and feed some worms. No mess. No fuss. House holds its value for immediate liquidation with proceeds going to my daughter.

      Keep your self(ish) righteous bullshit to yourself.