Finally! It’s just too bad my insurance score is still too low for me to get the required homeowner’s insurance because the car company shared my driving data with insurance data brokers, and they don’t like that I park in front of bars every Friday night, they don’t know it’s because I have a third job as a busboy. It’s ok though, cause at least I’m still free to tip my landlord, and employment rates are up!
But remember. You’re paying his mortgage and you can’t deduct that from your taxes but he can deduct his mortgage from his taxes (the same mortgage that you paid)
You can only deduct taxes paid on your mortgage. Not the actual mortgage. Not sure why i keep seeing this and piece of misinformation everywhere.
Pretty much. Because you’re deducting the interest. You could have also googled this
>implying americans actually want a credit score
I’m honestly unsure. What is the alternative? Instead of a pre-emptive risk assessment of whether or not you can pay something, more people just receive punishments when they end up not being able to? I don’t like being judged or told what I can or cannot pay back a month from now, but on a large scale doesn’t this mostly protect people from dangerous debts? For the opponents, what is the proposed alternative?
on a large scale doesn’t this mostly protect people from dangerous debts?
Not really. It just ends up with lenders offering far more predatory interest rates, which worsens the situation for the debtor. The system is set up in such a way that you can spiral pretty hard with a single misstep.
I’m honestly unsure. What is the alternative?
Given that there are plenty of developed countries where credit scores don’t exist (and plenty more where they do but only for businesses), I think alternatives are imaginable. I would know, I live in one such country.
If you want a mortgage here, the bank will:
- Ask you about your current loans and potential past defaults
- Ask you about your current and past income, marital status, employment status, etc.
- Use those variables to pretty straightforwardly determine your loan capacity
- I think do a background check in national databases for defaults/“bad payer” status
- Contractually obligate you to receive your salary on the same account from which they will automatically pull the mortgage. I don’t think this helps reduce actual defaults much, but it probably greatly reduces the financial and administrative overhead of late/missed payments. Also this ties you into the creditor bank which is good for business, IDK how standard that practice is abroad.
The US consumer economy is very highly dependent on short-term/credit debt, and that is absolutely crazy to me. Some Americans say they “need” a credit card to defer payment on some purchases, and as someone raised in culture where debit is king this sounds absolutely insane. Y’all have been propagandized, here it is perfectly normal to not have a single credit line open before shopping for a mortgage and if anything your banker will commend you for it.
For the opponents, what is the proposed alternative?
I’d imagine this is the crux of the problem. Banks need some way to determine if someone will pay back their loans, and what better way than to tabulate their history of doing just that? Should banks be willing to take risks in a system with stuff like the 7 year rule?
If it was about the ability to pay back loans, then why does it go down when I finish paying the loan? Its about your ability to pay as much interest as possible.
This. Paid off my house and my excellent credit score dropped by almost 20 points.
I’d like credit scores systems to be fully public and developed by the government. It would be far better than the three private systems Americans deal with now.
Four*. FICO is another one and at one time was most commonly used for home mortgages. Not sure how true that is today, but it’s still very much in use.
The vast majority of Americans (95%) say having a good credit score is important to them, according to the survey.
I have yet to meet a Democrat or Republican who thinks they shouldn’t exist.
I mean same applies to the Chinese,
but wanting to look good in an oppressive system, does not mean you actually like to be oppressed by said system.Is this stockholm syndrome?
Following rules because you’re afraid of the consequences is extremely different from falling in love with or even desiring the rules.
There’s a difference between wanting to have good credit so that you can benefit from a garbage system and wanting that system to exist in the first place.
No shit. Going to the hospital is important to me but I wish I didn’t have to do that, too.
Of course it is; that’s the system under which we’re living.
The system exists and you can’t really do anything about it. No one wants to be penalized by it.
you can’t really do anything about it.
I mean denouncing the system would be a first step, yes. Like I said I never seen Democrats or Republicans claims this system shouldn’t exist.
I’m a leftist who dislikes capitalism, but I can admit that credit scores were a step up from the way loans were done before. The old way just made it so the banks themselves decided who they wanted to issue a loan to, and that led to a lot of racism and sexism when it came to giving the loans out.
Still, I do think we can come up with a better system than the current credit score system, and I think you have the right idea to point out it’s flaws to start the wheels turning on improving it.
your conclusion doesn’t follow from your premise. the ability to live indoors is going to be important to people even if they think the system by which we decide who is allowed to live indoors is kinda shit.
The sadder thing is that Chinese social credit hasn’t actually even been implemented, and doesn’t seem like it’s going to. There are only limited local experiments, most of which are allegedly largely irrelevant.
Whereas there are multiple credit score companies currently tracking literally everyone who has a bank account.
How do you think it came to be that most Americans believe that in China you can have your home seized for being impolite?
It has been implemented, just not at the full scale they originally planned. It started in 2014 and was supposed to be finished by 2020, but has received a lot of pushback and controversies. There are people who are not allowed to fly on a plane, take a train, make a large purchase, or attend certain events in China, that is an undeniable fact.
One of the most well known examples is Xu Xiaodong, a MMA fighter who set out on a journey to expose fake Kung Fu Mystics by challenging them to fights. He relies completely on other individuals to travel, and has to send his videos overseas to be uploaded online because otherwise they get censored by the CCP.
I have good credit but I cannot buy a house.
My husband and I bought ours in 2019, and I feel like we did so in the nick of time, and that’s with being on two programs and taking an additional loan for the down payment, and that’s because paying the mortgage was lower than renting an apartment at the time.
People can’t afford housing anymore. I feel guilty even owning a house because it’s gotten so bad (even though the bank technically owns this shit).
Don’t feel guilty! Congrats on the house. Enjoy it.
Thank you.
Same. Alternatively, turn that guilt into the drive to attend community meetings.
Yeah I’m pretty involved locally, although action is pretty limited here where I live in South Dakota
Bummer that sounds rough. I’m in New England so it’s mostly nattering neoliberal nimbys 🙄
Oh don’t worry, we’ve got a lot of them here as well. I know a lot of good people too, but everyone is stretched so thin with work and trying to survive.
Buying a house was what pushed me from Bernie flavored socialist to full on leftist. We were lucky enough to find and qualify for a community land trust and it is such a better system than anything else in America. It should just be how housing is done available to everyone, not just people who qualify.
even though the bank technically owns this shit
Nah, they just have a substantial lien against the property :)
Oh thank god that’s all it is /s
I feel guilty even owning a house because it’s gotten so bad
It’s not like prices are going to rise forever. Market cycles are natural. There will be a crash, and there will be cheaper homes once again, and as long as the government is competent, random businesses won’t buy them all with the intent to rent them out to potential homeowners.
You need credit and money. Ironic eh?
Thats a seperate issue, that is central banks and over regulation of the housing market. This has devalued your wages and made housing too expensive. And the sad part is BOTH of the parties support these things (if you are an american).
I got rejected just last week for something pretty inexpensive that I can afford to pay off in installments. My credit score is good and I’ve never defaulted on any payments before. I live in the UK, not in China.
AFAIK the social credit system that westerners like to mock was only trialled and never implemented. I, on the other hand, have actually been screwed over by my own country’s credit score system.
In the US, I think you would be entitled by law to know the reason why you were rejected ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Credit_Opportunity_Act ).
Does the UK have something similar?
Incorrect, the Social Credit System started in 2014 and was supposed to be operating at full scale in 2020 but they keep missing deadlines. It is in use, has been for a decade, just not as much as the CCP wanted it to be.
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Another key difference is one is aimed at executives and businesses and the other is aimed at everyone
with the amount of information sharing between all the large corps, they are likely to be more similar than you think.
But does the corporate data collection factor into your FICO score? Unless there’s some new scary development I’m not aware of, the FICO score is only based on the following: length and number of accounts, revolving utilization, if payments are on time, and the loans you have made (based on the size and frequency of them).
FICO is just one of a multitude of scoring systems which impact people’s lives in the US today.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_credit_scoring_systems_in_the_United_States
You and your friends’ social media activity, among numerous other things, can absolutely affect your ability to get a loan, a job, a rental contract, etc.
Don’t give them any ideas.
When you’re rejected for a loan by a bank in the USA you’re entitled by law to know the reason. If your credit is good, your job is stable, and you’ve got no history of finance-related crime then you won’t be denied a loan. If you’re denied a loan because of the type of porn you browsed or some shit you said on Twitter, then that’s grounds for a discrimination lawsuit.
It is real, it was first put into use in 2014 with a six year plan to make it fully operational, but it’s never reached that point. It not being as big as the CCP intended doesn’t make it not real, it’s still in use right now.
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I’m no fan of credit scores but let’s not act like its the same thing as Chinese social credit
What’s that? You don’t think you should have a score that keeps track of everyone’s mundane behaviors and ranks them? But what if I want to cross the street between crosswalks, or need to spit, or feel like criticizing the government? Anybody who does those things should be banned from even buying groceries, or having children. Maybe we should send the death van.
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Do you think I made any of that up?
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Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=nGhOssPumUU
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
course not credit scores actually exists and social credit does not since it was just a trial
Assuming you are correct it’s still pretty crazy that they even considered anything even close to that.
Meanwhile insurance scores in the US gather all sorts of opaque behavioral data via data brokers. And the IMF even thinks you’re browser history should influence your credit score.
Maybe, I don’t live there. But a social score is absolutely insane.
China is having some of the same wages/productivity split problems that the us has and there’s a vein of thought that says it’s fixable with social incentive programs.
This isn’t 1984 evil authoritarian tankie shit, its liberal reform shit.
And as another reply to you mentioned, a lot of the “social” factors are reported to the big 3 credit reporting agencies through denials based on giant weird datasets anyway, so the “normal” credit score is a “social” credit score in disguise.
Incorrect, the Social Credit system was started in 2014 and intended to operate at full scale before 2020 but it’s still not there, yet. It’s been in use for over a decade, just not as much as the CCP wants it to be.
We tried personally evaluating people for loans on their individual merits, and shocker, there was rampant racism and sexism. Having strict metrics, instead of relying on the whims of a dickwad loan agent, is a good thing.
The new system isn’t perfect, and yeah, it completely favors people who have parents who know how the system works. But at least it’s not explicitly racist or sexist (again, there are of course systemic issues that feed into it).
I get that it’s frustrating to, for example, need to have debt in order to qualify for more debt. But in other contexts this is pretty standard — it’s essentially “financial experience.”
But yeah. It sucks that you should pay expenses with a credit card rather than debit in the USA. Personally it doesn’t matter to me (I pay them off every month), but it sucks for merchants who get stuck with the credit card transaction fees.
The rise of check cards and normalizing paying for everything on plastic was a big tipping point. There’s even a Monopoly game that uses electronic cards these days. It lets activity tracking run rampant and of course the banks get to skim a fee off everything.
Franky I see it as having nothing to do with fiscal responsibility (can’t overspend the cash on hand) and more just a way to funnel more to those with means than anything. It’s funny how cash advances on cards charge a higher rate than purchases despite neither offering a security interest to the card issuer.
You can live without a credit score, even get a mortgage. It’s not exactly easy, but it’s not that difficult. Once you have a mortgage, you have a good credit score.
735 ain’t enough to buy a house in America in this economy
It’s not the 735 thats the problem it’s the 5k a month mortgage
Don’t forget the minimum 20% down payment if you don’t want to get your booty destroyed with interest.
It’s enough but you’ve gotta be ready to pay for a $1 million small bungalow, so $200k up front and a $4k/month mortgage.
In evil totalitarian China, you can be banned from buying high speed rail tickets if you default on your loans.
In good democratic freedom America, you can be denied all forms of air travel because your name happens to resemble one that’s on a secret list.
Those two aren’t all that comparable, but if you’re not barred from flying by the federal government and the private airline or local airport stop you from doing so then that’s ground for lawsuit. Hell, even if the federal government banned you without proper grounds, you could sue them too, people sue the FBI, TSA, CIA, or CDC all the time.
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Does anyone not how to a Bookwyrme review through a Lemmy link ? Anyway : https://books.theunseen.city/book/192913/s/weapons-of-math-destruction
good book!
Excellent. And i could copy entier chapiters under this post and still be relevant.
